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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 10, 2009 1:26:15 GMT -5
I wanted to do a thread about this for two reasons:
1.) There's no better time of the year to do this -- both Christians and Messianics are celebrating religious holidays. It is holy week for Christians and Messianics who celebrate the events of the passion week. Since all believers, whether they be Christian or Messianic Jew link the events of holy week with Passover, this subject is current.
2.) Because this subject was just brought up in a thread today
I will give my beliefs about Yeshua's death, from a trinitarian perspective. Non-trinitarians will have to say if/how their beliefs may differ.
The question at hand is this: is it by Yeshua's death that our sins are forgiven? Does His blood cover our sins?
Trinitarian Christians would answer yes.
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Post by John on Apr 12, 2009 12:51:40 GMT -5
Yeshua took our penalty for sin. so if we accept him than when we regress into sin, as long as we go back into the messianic light, we do not have to pay rthe penalty of sin, for Yehua did that.
the blooddoes not cover our sins. contra, YHVH still sees our sins, but he does not punish us for them because he sees that we accepted Yeshuas offer to take our penalty.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 12, 2009 13:16:37 GMT -5
Heb 10:26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Do these people know something we do not?
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Post by John on Apr 12, 2009 13:47:35 GMT -5
pioneer: what do you think happens to people if they sin diliberately and then repent (r is sinning deliberately unforgivable because it counts as blasphemy of the Ruach HaKodesh?)
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Post by pioneer on Apr 12, 2009 15:02:22 GMT -5
pioneer: what do you think happens to people if they sin diliberately and then repent (r is sinning deliberately unforgivable because it counts as blasphemy of the Ruach HaKodesh?) It is my understanding from both Torah anf Hebrews that intentional sin is not forgiven. Period. Malice of forethought/intentional. 1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:It seems he is meaning unintententional/stumble sin. If you make a mistake we have an advocate with the Father to ask for forgiveness. "Go and sin no more." |
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Post by John on Apr 12, 2009 17:15:49 GMT -5
so if you intentionally sin ONCE then you go to hell? (or for you: you are destroyed after ressurection?)
if that is the case i think we are all going to hell. can you make it to heaven/ new earth with unforgiven sin?
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Post by pioneer on Apr 12, 2009 20:34:33 GMT -5
so if you intentionally sin ONCE then you go to hell? (or for you: you are destroyed after ressurection?) if that is the case i think we are all going to hell. can you make it to heaven/ new earth with unforgiven sin? What a leap! Did I say you go to hell? NO! I said it is not forgiven, go to Hebrews and read the consequences. Fall into the hands of the Living God. A God fearing man does not deliberately go and sin! He knows he will be dealt with by the God Almighty, a fearful thing. Only a fool would do so. |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 13, 2009 15:23:39 GMT -5
pioneer: what do you think happens to people if they sin diliberately and then repent (r is sinning deliberately unforgivable because it counts as blasphemy of the Ruach HaKodesh?) It is my understanding from both Torah anf Hebrews that intentional sin is not forgiven. Period. Malice of forethought/intentional. 1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:It seems he is meaning unintententional/stumble sin. If you make a mistake we have an advocate with the Father to ask for forgiveness. "Go and sin no more."So then do you believe that if someone intentionally sins before they accept Yeshua that they cannot be forgiven for that sin? You said it is your understanding that intentional sin is not forgiven, period. I take that to mean that you believe that it is never forgiven. Does this accurately sum up your beliefs? If not, then please explain. Thank you. |
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Post by John on Apr 13, 2009 15:44:42 GMT -5
i was working off of an earlier question: is sin allowed in heaven/new earth?
if not then you are destroyed at the ressurection- in christian view, you go to hell.
and if so, how can sin be allowed into heaven/new earth, when not even flesh and blood is allowed there.
so are you saying that if you sin intentionally then you are going to be judged by YHVH, whether by death in the ressurection, or other means, depending on the almighty's choice?
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 13, 2009 18:22:17 GMT -5
By whose standard do you decide whether or not something is intentional sin? If you really think about it, all sin is intentional. There is a thought that proceeds all sin.
If Jesus' blood is not sufficient to cover all of our sin, then who did Yeshua die for? And why did He have to die?
If Yeshua's blood is insufficient, then each person must earn their own way into heaven by not sinning. This would no longer be grace. Grace is God's unmerited favor. It is undeserved and cannot be earned. Our righteousness would be earned, and we could then truly boast in our own effort -- our own ability to keep the Law. Yeshua would have died for nothing and for no one.
We all fall short, and we have all sinned intentionally.
Please note that I'm not suggesting that people intentionally sin. I'm simply stating that salvation is not based on our ability to not sin. Most definitely believers should try not to sin.
(All Scripture taken from the NASB)
Romans 4:7
7"BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
Acts 20:28
28"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
From Romans chapter 3
9What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 3for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27Where then is boasting? Itis excluded By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
From Romans chapter 5
1Therefore, having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, , 2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 0For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 3for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. 18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
9For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 1so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:1
1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
From 2 Corinthians 5
14For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Colossians 1:13-14
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
From Galatians 3
1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain?
5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?6Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."9So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Galatians 6:14
14But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
From Isaiah 52-53
13Behold, My servant will prosper,
He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted.
14Just as many were astonished at you, My people,
So His appearance was marred more than any man
And His form more than the sons of men.
15Thus He will sprinkle many nations,
Kings will shut their mouths on account of Him;
For what had not been told them they will see,
And what they had not heard they will understand.
1Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
3He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
7He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
8By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
9His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
10But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
11As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
12Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
There are more verses...
[NOTE FROM JOHN: i would like people to pay attention to the general info category. i have added two rules, and one of them is on double posting. Please read this rule. If anyone breaks this rule to many times than i will have to resort to bigger consequences than 'copy, paste and modify'... if you have something to add to a post that is younger than 24 hours than add it through the modify button. Thank you all: barukh yeshua- john]
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Post by pioneer on Apr 13, 2009 19:40:22 GMT -5
Good who needs the bible, just accept Jesus and all your intentional/malice of forethuoght sins are forgiven, who cares if the Christian God said "Go and sin no more." What, he's just enamored by the sound of his own voice, just speaking words to bring joy to his ears. Well I for one shema v'shemar! i was working off of an earlier question: is sin allowed in heaven/new earth? if not then you are destroyed at the ressurection- in christian view, you go to hell. and if so, how can sin be allowed into heaven/new earth, when not even flesh and blood is allowed there. so are you saying that if you sin intentionally then you are going to be judged by YHVH, whether by death in the ressurection, or other means, depending on the almighty's choice? Not inside of the city! Rev.22:14 [NOTE FROM JOHN: see my note on NLB's post earlier.] |
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Post by John on Apr 13, 2009 19:56:38 GMT -5
NLB: can Yeshua;s blood cover the unforgivable sin?
PIONEER and NLB: what do you think makes the sin unforgivable?
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 13, 2009 20:04:26 GMT -5
Good who needs the bible, just accept Jesus and all your intentional/malice of forethuoght sins are forgiven, who cares if the Christian God said "Go and sin no more." What, he's just enamored by the sound of his own voice, just speaking words to bring joy to his ears. Well I for one shema v'shemar! I think you misunderstood what I was saying I said : 1.) We are not justified by following the Law. We cannot earn our way into heaven by following the Law. We are not saved by how well we keep the law. 2.) Even though we are not justified by the Law, this does NOT mean that we should sin on purpose. In fact, we should try to avoid sinning. Justification/salvation is a totally different issue. You appear to be making it the same issue, though. I agree with Yeshua that we should "go and sin no more." We SHOULD try not to sin. However, this does not mean that we won't slip up and sin. Once again, it is not by not sinning that a person is saved. It is only through the blood of Yeshua that we are saved. I'm arguing against the viewpoint that a person needs to follow the Law perfectly in order to be saved. No one is justified by the Law. I had all of the parts bolded and underlined that I wanted to highlight, but when the post was edited, it lost all of that. I'll have to go through and try to edit again to bold the parts I wanted to be in bold. John wrote: According to Yeshua, the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Again, according to Him, this sin will never be forgiven. Let's look at the context that this passage comes up in: Matthew 12 22Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw.23All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?"24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons."
25And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.26"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?27"If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.28" But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.29"Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.31" Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.32"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Mark 3:22 22T he scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons." 3And He called them to Himself and began speaking to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan?24"If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.25"If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.26"If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!27"But no one can enter the strong man's house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house. 28"T ruly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--30 because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit." [/u] It seems that from the context, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would be to claim that He or something He does is evil. If the Holy Spirit is the empowering member of the Trinity, to say something evil about Him would be to insult the one who allows people to demonstrate God's glory....and also the one who changes hearts and points people to the Messiah. If you think about all the things that the Holy Spirit is supposed to do throughout the Bible, and then to insult Him.....that's pretty terrible. Another thought is that because there are counterfeit gifts and there really are demons, to accuse the Holy Spirit of being the false when He is called the Spirit of Truth is awful because it twists things all around and leads people away from God. Why is it unforgivable? I'm not qualified to answer that. Only God knows why this is so. Maybe this is not something that can be universally applied to all who attribute to the Satan what in reality the Holy Spirit did/does. Maybe this only specifically applies when someone says that it was Satan who was behind the miracles and the things that Yeshua said. Because the things that Yeshua did pointed to the truth that He is the Messiah. Like maybe if someone says that it is Satan who is behind something that I do, that would not be unforgiveable. However, if someone says that Satan was the power behind the things that Yeshua did, that would be unforgiveable. Maybe this has to do with Yeshua's identity, and the authenticity of His claims as being the Messiah. The reason I add this in is because of the context that it occurs. People were claiming that Yeshua was the Messiah, and some of these religious leaders who heard the people saying this sought to discredit Him by saying that these things were done by the power of Satan. But then again, maybe it still applies to when the Holy Spirit works in our lives and someone says that it is Satan. I would not want to test this. I would not want to call the Holy Spirit or His works evil. |
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Post by John on Apr 13, 2009 20:08:13 GMT -5
umm.. i disagree. it is possible for one to be without sin. Yeshua is the only man to have achieved this so far however, and likely going to be the only one for quite some time. a good site on this is: mb-soft.com/believe/txue/august64.htm |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 13, 2009 20:48:42 GMT -5
umm.. i disagree. it is possible for one to be without sin. Yeshua is the only man to have achieved this so far however, and likely going to be the only one for quite some time. a good site on this is: mb-soft.com/believe/txue/august64.htmIf we can be sinless, then Yeshua died for nothing. Those who can be sinless would have no need of a Savior...they would be their own saviors. I don't believe that it is possible for anyone besides Yeshua to be without sin. |
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Post by pioneer on Apr 13, 2009 21:44:05 GMT -5
NLB: can Yeshua;s blood cover the unforgivable sin? PIONEER and NLB: what do you think makes the sin unforgivable? 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Okay, just what is meant in this verse if not to say intentional sin is trodden the Blood of Messiah underfoot? I am at a loss when one says that we can be again washed by the blood we have spurned. If we stumble; 1Jo 2:1 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; Y H V H did not give the Chosen People an impossible task and then take away their calling and give it to the Christians. |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 13, 2009 21:54:30 GMT -5
NLB: can Yeshua;s blood cover the unforgivable sin? PIONEER and NLB: what do you think makes the sin unforgivable? 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Okay, just what is meant in this verse if not to say intentional sin is trodden the Blood of Messiah underfoot? I am at a loss when one says that we can be again washed by the blood we have spurned. If we stumble; 1Jo 2:1 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; Y H V H did not give the Chosen People an impossible task and then take away their calling and give it to the Christians. What about an interpretation like this -- if a person decides that they no longer need Yeshua's blood, and renounce it, saying that they were deceived before....or who completely reject Yeshua in favor of something else? A falling away from faith in Yeshua. Wouldn't that be trampling Yeshua's blood under their feet? |
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Post by John on Apr 13, 2009 21:58:25 GMT -5
so yochanon is saying that IF we sin then maybe Yeshua can convince YHVH not to judge us in the way he first decided (destrucion after ressurection)?
an example being Mosheh interceding for Yisrael after they worshipped the golden calf. Mosheh convinced YHVH to judge Yisrael differently from the first way he had decided to.
this is how i see the verse of Yochanon
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 13, 2009 22:00:59 GMT -5
so yochanon is saying that IF we sin then maybe Yeshua can convince YHVH not to judge us in the way he first decided (destrucion after ressurection)? an example being Mosheh interceding for Yisrael after they worshipped the golden calf. Mosheh convinced YHVH to judge Yisrael differently from the first way he had decided to. this is how i see the verse of Yochanon Do you believe in salvation by grace through faith -- that we are saved because of what Yeshua did -- because of His blood? Or do you believe that we are saved by our good works and our ability to follow the Law? |
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 12:35:56 GMT -5
we are saved from grace.. this was pauls message.
if we are saved than we are naturally going to good works anyway... this is yaakovs message.
we are to not sin after we are saved, but if we do, we have Yeshua to intercede for us- this is Yochanons message.
this is the gospel that i believe... we are saved by faith, not works... this is an oxymoron. believing is a verb. but if you look at the greek 'works' means outward works. so the works that save us is accepting the fgift of Yeshua, believing, and changing on the inside. Yaakov proves that if we have faith and our inner man is changing, than the outside will reflect this change and we will do works anyway.
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