About Yeshua's death and resurrection

[Never Looking Back]

Apr 14, 2009 12:35:56 GMT -5 John said:

we are saved from grace.. this was pauls message.

if we are saved than we are naturally going to good works anyway... this is yaakovs message.

we are to not sin after we are saved, but if we do, we have Yeshua to intercede for us- this is Yochanons message.

this is the gospel that i believe... we are saved by faith, not works... this is an oxymoron. believing is a verb. but if you look at the greek 'works' means outward works. so the works that save us is accepting the fgift of Yeshua, believing, and changing on the inside. Yaakov proves that if we have faith and our inner man is changing, than the outside will reflect this change and we will do works anyway.

Okay, good, then you and I agree.

The only amendment to what you said would be that we are saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, and not saved FROM grace, which is what you said. I think you meant that we are saved by grace through faith, though.

[John]

oh yes... look at me preaching to jonotan on watching how he words things and then doing the same thing. i feel like a filthy hypocrite, lol.

but yes this is what i believe. trust me that there is not much difference btwn christianity and mj on what the blood of christ is.

i think you are wondering where mj differs. well, the trinity is accepted by some mj groups. so the deity of Yeshua and the trinity- that is all depending on the group you have, just like christian denominatnions.

BUT mj differs from christianity in a few ways. i will write a paper on this and pm the attachment to you. there you can know the basic stances of messianic jews in this forum. but also remember the mj is a VERY shaky and divided movement right now. the only person who has made an attempt to unify its bleiefs is david stern and he failled misrably, although he is prety smart.

you have a very big chance of taking 100 messianic jews, asking them what they believe and getting 4 groups of different core beliefs. the problem with messianic judaism is that it is such a small movement right now and it already has different sects. christianity started this way, but eventually catholocism took over and other sects broke off AFTER some core beliefs were decided. so the vulnerability of messianic judaism is high.

again, i will talk to you personally about core mj believfs, because i think this is the main thig that you are wondering.