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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 14, 2009 21:28:28 GMT -5
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; NLB, doesn't your copy of the bible have these verses in it? Yes, of course it also has those verses. What is your point with them? Nothing in those verses contradicts anything I posted from Romans. |
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Post by pioneer on Apr 14, 2009 22:09:07 GMT -5
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; NLB, doesn't your copy of the bible have these verses in it? Yes, of course it also has those verses. What is your point with them? Nothing in those verses contradicts anything I posted from Romans. May Y H V H grant you new eyes in which to see! You guys will never make the Jews jealous. So the verse about that is not yours. Baruch Hashem. |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 15, 2009 8:22:04 GMT -5
May Y H V H grant you new eyes in which to see! You guys will never make the Jews jealous. So the verse about that is not yours. Baruch Hashem. So are you saying that I don't have eternal life, and that salvation is only for Jews, and that non-Jews, even if they trust in Yeshua as their Lord and Savior cannot be saved? Are you saying that none of God's promises apply to me, because I'm not a Jewish believer in Yeshua? Clearly you believe me to be hell-bound, regardless of my faith in Yeshua. If this is your position, then I obviously disagree with you. If this is your position, then I also find it to be quite arrogant. This would make salvation entirely about us and what we do, and our ability to follow the law and make people look at us (making others jealous)....in essence, it seems that you are saying that only those who successfully make Jews jealous (and that would be by your definition) have the opportunity to call on Yeshua and believe in Him, and thus be saved. You therefore are boasting in yourself. For me, my faith is not about trying to make people look to me. Salvation isn't about me. Rather, it is about God. I don't make it my aim to make anyone jealous. If people become jealous of me because of my faith, then that simply happens. I repeat what Paul wrote here when he said this: Galatians 6:14 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. from Philippians 3 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.8More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,9a nd may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,10t hat I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. It is evident to me that you will never see me or any other non-Messlianic believer in any other light but how you have already portrayed us on the forums -- as "Lawless Pagan Christians" bound for hell. You deny that we are saved by grace through faith, you deny that we too are genuine believers in Yeshua, you deny that we can live by the Spirit, and you deny that God will save us. I'm done talking with you, Pioneer, because I do not think that any good will come of it. You obviously do not view me as an equal in the Messiah -- in many ways you do not even consider me to be a believer in Him. Every comment you make about me and other Christians is meant as a source of division. It seems to me that you are constantly tearing us down. There is no love in this, and it is not benefiting anyone. I refuse to waste my time talking with you. Because of this, I'm going to ignore all future posts that you make. I have already stated my position quite clearly. I'm more than willing to talk with John or ItIsWritten, or anyone else on this forum. But with you, Pioneer, I feel that I cannot discuss anything with you. |
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 15, 2009 8:58:39 GMT -5
Sheesh you two. I had no idea what john was talking about before with the whole do you two have to end everything in a fight. Really someone would think you two were married. I was about to cry with happiness with all the peace and loving NLB was talking about until I read what you saud Pioneer. come on rejoice together you two.
"Are you saying that none of God's promises apply to me, because I'm not a Jewish believer in Yeshua?"
Sorry that quote thing gets on my nerves I do quick reply. I'm sure he wasn't saying that. what happened to Gentiles. I don't know if I'm correct I'm pretty sure I'm not heehee but aren't christains the same as Gentiles. Or anyone not a Jew but a believer in Yeshua a Gentile. I really do need to read up on the NT.
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 15, 2009 9:49:31 GMT -5
Sheesh you two. I had no idea what john was talking about before with the whole do you two have to end everything in a fight. Really someone would think you two were married. I was about to cry with happiness with all the peace and loving NLB was talking about until I read what you saud Pioneer. come on rejoice together you two. "Are you saying that none of God's promises apply to me, because I'm not a Jewish believer in Yeshua?" Sorry that quote thing gets on my nerves I do quick reply. I'm sure he wasn't saying that. what happened to Gentiles. I don't know if I'm correct I'm pretty sure I'm not heehee but aren't christains the same as Gentiles. Or anyone not a Jew but a believer in Yeshua a Gentile. I really do need to read up on the NT. I think, though I could be wrong, that Pioneer was saying that the passage I posted from Romans 10 and the other two verses that he quoted do not apply to me because I'm not a Messianic Jew, and thus I can't be saved. (The passages in Romans 10 about calling on Yeshua and believing in Him do not apply to me because I can't make the Jews jealous.....this seems to be Pioneer's argument.) If I'm wrong about this, Pioneer, I apologize, but that is what it seems to me. If this is not what you meant, then please explain. The reason that I came to this conclusion is because one of the verses, the verse that talks about comes shortly after the stuff that I quoted from in Romans 10. He quoted Romans 11:26 and then made a reference to Romans 11:11 1I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. and also 13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. In my view, Pioneer has taken these verses out of context to say that it should be the believer's aim to make Jews jealous. Again, please read what he wrote here: Pioneer did not fully clarify what he was referring to. Was he referring to the two verses that he quoted? Was he referring to Romans 11:11 and Romans 11:13? Or was he referring to what I quoted from Romans 10 about anyone who calls on the name of the Lord is saved? Seeing how his responses were in response to Romans 10, my conclusion is that he was referring to ALL of these passages, including Romans 10 since Romans 10 comes just before Romans 11. Romans is all one letter. On other occasions, Pioneer has stated that those who do not follow the food laws (specifically, those who eat pork) will be rejected by God. (See the parable he posted in the Bubba Goes to Heaven thread). Pioneer, if you meant something else, please clarify. You have not explained the connections between the verses that you are using, or what you specifically referred to as "so the verse about that is not yours." |
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 15, 2009 10:18:52 GMT -5
haha this is, umm.. not funny yeaahhhh. Oh sorry if I offended you with the married couple thing. when I read what you say I usually picture a woman. i have a, i guess, what you would call a vivid imagination. I believe John will correct me and and tell me what I mean like usual lol
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 15, 2009 10:23:24 GMT -5
haha this is, umm.. not funny yeaahhhh. Oh sorry if I offended you with the married couple thing. when I read what you say I usually picture a woman. i have a, i guess, what you would call a vivid imagination. I believe John will correct me and and tell me what I mean like usual lol No offense taken. I do not mind. I will talk to Pioneer if he is willing to define what he means with the verses. |
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Post by pioneer on Apr 15, 2009 14:04:10 GMT -5
May Y H V H grant you new eyes in which to see! You guys will never make the Jews jealous. So the verse about that is not yours. Baruch Hashem. So are you saying that I don't have eternal life, and that salvation is only for Jews, and that non-Jews, even if they trust in Yeshua as their Lord and Savior cannot be saved? Are you saying that none of God's promises apply to me, because I'm not a Jewish believer in Yeshua? Clearly you believe me to be hell-bound, regardless of my faith in Yeshua. If this is your position, then I obviously disagree with you. If this is your position, then I also find it to be quite arrogant. This would make salvation entirely about us and what we do, and our ability to follow the law and make people look at us (making others jealous)....in essence, it seems that you are saying that only those who successfully make Jews jealous (and that would be by your definition) have the opportunity to call on Yeshua and believe in Him, and thus be saved. You therefore are boasting in yourself. For me, my faith is not about trying to make people look to me. Salvation isn't about me. Rather, it is about God. I don't make it my aim to make anyone jealous. If people become jealous of me because of my faith, then that simply happens. I repeat what Paul wrote here when he said this: Galatians 6:14 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. from Philippians 3 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.8More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,9a nd may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,10t hat I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. It is evident to me that you will never see me or any other non-Messlianic believer in any other light but how you have already portrayed us on the forums -- as "Lawless Pagan Christians" bound for hell. You deny that we are saved by grace through faith, you deny that we too are genuine believers in Yeshua, you deny that we can live by the Spirit, and you deny that God will save us. I'm done talking with you, Pioneer, because I do not think that any good will come of it. You obviously do not view me as an equal in the Messiah -- in many ways you do not even consider me to be a believer in Him. Every comment you make about me and other Christians is meant as a source of division. It seems to me that you are constantly tearing us down. There is no love in this, and it is not benefiting anyone. I refuse to waste my time talking with you. Because of this, I'm going to ignore all future posts that you make. I have already stated my position quite clearly. I'm more than willing to talk with John or ItIsWritten, or anyone else on this forum. But with you, Pioneer, I feel that I cannot discuss anything with you. How on earth do you get from A to Z in one letter? No such thought in my mind! But yes in Hebrew you are going to hell! The grave/pit/place of burial. But I believe what the bible says about salvation, it is so easy a 13YO can be saved. I have never questioned your salvation!!!!!! On the other hand the bible, your God says for you to keep the commandments. This in my view is doing the "will of God", it is not the hearers who are justified, but the DOERS who are justified. Too bad you equate salvation and going to heaven as being elected. They are not one in the same. But, you are RIGHT, you can't discuss anything with me because tou have your mind made up, set in concrete. On making the Jews jealous, that is in scripture, clearly a "Lawless Christian" will not cause a Law Abiding Jew to be jealous. Remember the God of this world has blinded the non-believers so they can not see the glory of the Messiah. When you make the Messiah into God, a Jew is completely turned off from the "get go", and they will not see if you have any glory of Messiah. Any change of heart will have to be the 'will of God', because my computer can not break concrete, a job for the Ruach Haqodesh. Shalom |
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Post by John on Apr 15, 2009 14:08:46 GMT -5
pioneer- you have your ind set in concrete as well. both of you are as narrow minded as all getout.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 15, 2009 14:24:52 GMT -5
pioneer- you have your ind set in concrete as well. both of you are as narrow minded as all getout. Is reading and doing the bible, 'narrowminded'? If it is. Then, Thank you! Shalom u'vrachot |
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Post by John on Apr 15, 2009 15:01:57 GMT -5
NLB thinks he/she (this is why i am asking whether you are male or female NLB, its so much of a hastle to be jeutral about that stuff... so if i refer yo you asa he and you are a she than dont get offneded) is "reading and doing the bible" as well.
so you are calling him narrow minded when really as he is doing is reading and doing the bible according to his level of understanding. JUST like you.
so your welcome. in a sense that is what i meant
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 15, 2009 15:10:09 GMT -5
How on earth do you get from A to Z in one letter? No such thought in my mind! But yes in Hebrew you are going to hell! The grave/pit/place of burial. But I believe what the bible says about salvation, it is so easy a 13YO can be saved. I have never questioned your salvation!!!!!! On the other hand the bible, your God says for you to keep the commandments. This in my view is doing the "will of God", it is not the hearers who are justified, but the DOERS who are justified. Too bad you equate salvation and going to heaven as being elected. They are not one in the same. But, you are RIGHT, you can't discuss anything with me because tou have your mind made up, set in concrete. On making the Jews jealous, that is in scripture, clearly a "Lawless Christian" will not cause a Law Abiding Jew to be jealous. Remember the God of this world has blinded the non-believers so they can not see the glory of the Messiah. When you make the Messiah into God, a Jew is completely turned off from the "get go", and they will not see if you have any glory of Messiah. Any change of heart will have to be the 'will of God', because my computer can not break concrete, a job for the Ruach Haqodesh. Shalom All right then, what did you mean when you asked me those verses and said that the verse or verses did not apply to me? I'm trying to understand, but since we are coming from two different perspectives, you need to explain to me what connections you are making between my comments, your comments, and the verses that one or both of us use. I cannot read your mind. If you do not give an explanation, I am going to attempt to interpret what you mean from the context given up to that point. If you are not questioning my salvation, then what do you mean when you say that Christians will be cast out? What did you mean when you said that the passage does not apply to me? And what do you mean when you say that salvation is not the same thing as election? Maybe the best place to go from here would be to ask you what your definition of salvation is. Who gets what benefits from Scripture? Also, please note that we are going by two different definitions of what keeping the commandments mean. I agree that people should strive to follow God and to do His will. What this means to me is probably different than it means to you. In my understanding of Romans 11, Paul is saying that salvation itself was opened up to the non-Jewish believers in order to make the Jews jealous. Paul then goes on to say that he was appointed to preach the gospel to the non-Jews, and it is his hope that in doing this some of the Jews will become jealous and be saved. The subject here seems to be about the gospel itself. It seems to be the gospel and the fact that it was given to the non-Jews that is to make the Jews jealous. Please note that Christians are not lawless. It is just that the Christian interpretation of the law is sometimes different than what the Messianic Jewish interpretation is. If Christians were truly lawless, then we would not hold to any law that was ever given by God. We would be engaging in the occult, worshiping other gods, sleeping with as many people as we could, etc. If you talk with most Christian apologists, they will tell you that these things are sin. They would be warning people against it. I'm willing to talk to you as long as you are willing to view me as a human, and as long as we can have a rational conversation. The response that you gave me just now is a very good example of a rational conversation. From reading your other posts, I realize that you had a very bad experience in the church. From my reading of what you wrote in the Bubba parable, I know that you feel like Christians have lied to you. Look, I don't know what all you experienced with Christianity and the church, but all Christians cannot be lumped into the same category so that you can direct your anger at all Christians. Some day you will need to get to a point where you can forgive those that you felt wronged you that were in the church. You cannot just write off the entire church as being what your experience in the church was. The only way to see this is going to be for you to dialogue with those who are Christian. Then, both you and the Christians you talk with can learn from each other. I grew up in a mainline Christian denomination. I had known for a while that the church I grew up in was lacking in several areas. Quite frankly, if the only thing I knew about Christianity was what I learned from the church I grew up in, I would not be a Christian. I was not taught the gospel in the church I grew up in, nor was I taught anything about having a personal relationship with Him. No one shared with me what God was doing in their lives, and no one had a passion for Jesus or for the Bible. I also really did not know what Christian love was in that church. When I was in college I read through the New Testament and God showed me what the church should be like. I wanted to find a church like that. But because of the fact that I had grown up in the particular church that I did, I did have some anger towards that church, and towards the entire denomination it was a part of. I had to realize that not everyone in that denomination was like what I had seen in the church I grew up in. I had to realize that not all churches in that denomination were like the one I grew up in. I had to seek God out and ask Him to give me compassion for the people in the church I grew up in. I had to get to the place where I realized that they were trying to do their best. They only could teach me what they themselves knew. They did not know the gospel, and they did not know what Christ's love was because they had never been taught these things. It was only then that I could forgive them for not being the church that I needed. I learned what the Christian faith truly was from sources outside of the church I grew up in. I learned about it through reading the Bible, through talking with other Christians, through participation in Bible studies with other believers, through the speakers at various conferences I went to in college, and through a personal relationship with God....what He Himself has shown me. I also read various Christian books. I also started going to another church after I graduated from college. It is always dangerous to stereotype people. Not all who bear the name "Christian" are alike, or believe exactly the same way/exactly the same things. You must take every person you talk with on a case by case basis. For instance, you said that you were taught in the church that Jesus was blond haired and blue eyed. This is NOT a typical Christian belief in that it is not a doctrine of the church, nor is it stated in anyone's statement of faith that I have read. I never was taught that Jesus had blond hair and blue eyes. Nor have I ever heard anyone in the church make this claim. From what you said, it seems that you were not taught that Jesus was Jewish in your experience in the church. No church that I have gone to, no Christian source that I have read, no Christian that I know has ever denied that Jesus was Jewish. I fully acknowledge this fact, as do all other Christians that I know. The Christian situations that I have been in (whether at church or Bible study or whatever) all stated very clearly that Jesus was Jewish. The Bible itself declares this. Therefore, the denial that Jesus was Jewish is NOT a typical Christian belief either. I think that part of your responses to me stemmed from an assumption that I believed everything that the church you were exposed to believed, and that all Christians believe like that. If you would like to dialogue about some of the complaints you have regarding the church, or what some of your exposure in the church was, I would be glad to talk to you. I can tell you what my position is on the issue, and what other Christians I know believe about it. If you would be interested in doing this, we should start a thread in the Jewish/Christian section of the forum. In fact, I will do so now. As for Jews being turned off by the Christian belief in Jesus' deity, that may be true that some Jews are turned off. However, because I fully believe in Jesus' deity, I'm not going to change what I believe or what I say in order to convince someone to believe in Jesus. Jesus' deity is very important to me. My position has always been that people will be convinced by the truth shared in love, and not by someone trying to be "seeker friendly." If believers truly are followers of Christ, then it is God's love that should shine through us. It is our love for God and for each other that should draw people to Him. When people who have become believers in Christ have converted from another religion, their response is usually the fact that it was love that drew them to Christ. Never underestimate God. I know of several people who are Jewish who became believers in Jesus, and some of them were very religious Jews. They are trinitarian and fully believe in Jesus' deity. The fact that Christians believe that Jesus is God did not turn them away. |
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Post by pioneer on Apr 15, 2009 17:03:56 GMT -5
NLB, I had a detailed answer, hit preview and all was lost.
I'll copy to my word processor and redo it, but it will take a while.
I do want to say to you, your post is the very first ray of hope, I am duly impressed.
Shalom
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 15, 2009 17:12:46 GMT -5
NLB, I had a detailed answer, hit preview and all was lost. I'll copy to my word processor and redo it, but it will take a while. I do want to say to you, your post is the very first ray of hope, I am duly impressed. Shalom That's fine. I understand if it takes you a while to redo the post, and I"m sorry that you have to rewrite it. I hate it when I've written a long post, and then it gets lost. It's very frustrating. I will be looking for your post, but I also know that it will be a while. And Pioneer, thank you. I'm looking forward to our coming conversation  |
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 15, 2009 17:19:00 GMT -5
Awww, I feel like a big hypocrite. Like I hated the way Pioneer was, (Pioneer I don't mean to refer to you as your not there,) basically trashing Christians, but after reading that I realized I have been doing the same thing refusing to call myself one. (Neither have I referred to myself as a Jew and I won't) I also cast all Christians into one group. Blaming all for their actions but not thinking of the others who are true and wish to learn the truth told in the bible.
oh and what's an apologist I pictured someone saying sorry
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 15, 2009 17:34:57 GMT -5
Awww, I feel like a big hypocrite. Like I hated the way Pioneer was, (Pioneer I don't mean to refer to you as your not there,) basically trashing Christians, but after reading that I realized I have been doing the same thing refusing to call myself one. (Neither have I referred to myself as a Jew and I won't) I also cast all Christians into one group. Blaming all for their actions but not thinking of the others who are true and wish to learn the truth told in the bible. oh and what's an apologist I pictured someone saying sorry an apologist is someone who attempts to make a reasonable argument for a particular belief system. For example, Christian apologetics is concerned with making an argument for the Christian faith. They attempt to defend the faith from other belief systems, such as other religions or cults. Basically, what the apologist consider to be biblical truth. www.apologeticsindex.org/a13.htmlApologetics = The logical presentation and defense of the Christian faith Definition: Christian Apologetics Apologetics - from the Greek "apologia," a legal term meaning "defense" - is the branch of Christian theology concerned with the intelligent presentation and defense of the historical Christian faith. This defense is aimed at challenges from both outside and inside the Church. Christianity is under attack today, and it must be defended. There are attacks from within--from cults, sects, and heresies. And there are attacks from without--atheists, skeptics, and other religions. The discipline that deals with a rational defense of the Christian Faith is called apologetics. It comes from the Greek word apologia (cf. 1 Peter 3:15) which means to give a reason or defense. By studying the objections of unbelievers and preparing to reason with them, we take the high road of apologetics, the road of obedience to the direction of our Lord and Savior. His categorical claim was "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). The apologist responds to the objections of unbelievers in a way which sets forth the objective truth of Christianity and the exclusive character of the system. He or she offers reasons for belief, vindicating the Christian worldview over against competing systems of thought and living. |
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Post by John on Apr 15, 2009 18:08:26 GMT -5
jeordin you make me laugh- pioneer wasnt trashing christians-- he was trashing christianity and lawless hypocritical christians.
christian apology is the art of defending you beliefs. we can be considered apologetic laymen. (ie. apologists without the alphabet in front of their name, or people who have less degreees than a thermometor, not more)
[this reminds me of a time when Dr. Phil, Ph.D. said that he had as many degrees as a thermometor. i almost laughed. i wnted to send him a book by freud on the 'ego', lol]
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Post by pioneer on Apr 15, 2009 18:48:46 GMT -5
Okay here it is. All right then, what did you mean when you asked me those verses and said that the verse or verses did not apply to me? I'm trying to understand, but since we are coming from two different perspectives, you need to explain to me what connections you are making between my comments, your comments, and the verses that one or both of us use. I cannot read your mind. If you do not give an explanation, I am going to attempt to interpret what you mean from the context given up to that point. If you are not questioning my salvation, then what do you mean when you say that Christians will be cast out? What did you mean when you said that the passage does not apply to me? And what do you mean when you say that salvation is not the same thing as election? Maybe the best place to go from here would be to ask you what your definition of salvation is. Who gets what benefits from Scripture? Saved from the second death/ salvation. Granted eternal life. Until heaven and earth pass away, the law stands doing what it is intended to do bring them to Godliness, to make them know they need a savior, Close, Yes that is the gospel message to the gentiles, 'you too may become a child of God.' The making jealous is by doing the will of God/keeping the commandments. We Gentile converts/believers are given a 'Bye' from keeping the whole law until we learn an submit willingly to Gods will, to all the mitzvot that apply to each person where he is at.( some apply to women, some to Levi's ect &ect.) Yes I agree, "If Christians were truly lawless", but the mainline teaching is the law stopped with the cross, about half right, but until the destruction of the Temple, did the law cease to be obeyed, we see Sha'ul sacrificing in the temple, (did he sin?)so the law will continue til the end of the age. No, I had a blast in SS, VBS and church camp. It was after I left church not knowing the fear of God, I went through hell, because I did not know the truth. My daughter put me through nine kinds of hell, it was at the end of my rope that I had an experience that put me on my knees(the proper position to find God) I wont drag you through the gory details, but I started to read the bible(NT) trying to find the God I didn't learn in SS, as I said before, that Jesus was not to be found, I did find a Jew who said he was the son of God. When I had exhausted all hope in finding the truth, I had a "Holy Ghost" experience, suddenly I knew! I didn't know exactly what I knew , but I knew, I knew. The scales fell off my eyes and I saw and turned/teshuvah back to God. Well after many years of reading of the Whole bible the Comforter brought back to my remembrance, all Yeshua had said. (Hebraic teaching, when a child is born it has Torah on its lips, his angel touches it and it forgets). Yes, 3500 denominations different dogmas, but the same basic belief the RCC inspired RT Law for the Jews Grace for Christians. No I did not mean I was taught he was that, but He was Christian, to me an American, but He was not an American nor was He Christian. No not a denial, but not saying he was Jewish(Jews killed Christ) the picture on all RCC's wall the brown flowing hair the doe-eyed expression, He looked European to me, certainly not Jewish. Without a doubt. Do you worship on Sunday? Do you celebrate Christmas? %aster? Heaven when you die? eternal burning in hell for those who do not take Jesus as their personal savior? If your answer is no to the above I stand guilty as charged. Here you go with man-made words. there is no deity in scripture, and divine has two meanings in the bible, a Hebrew meaning and a Greek meaning, is it safe to assume you prefer the Greek? Well this brings us to a real sore point, Is Jesus Greek or Hebrew? The Greek NT is where all the false dogmas spring from, this is where I ask every one to align the Greek with Hebrew where it aligns it's scripture if it doesn't it is dogma. Never fear, I never underestimate the power of god. I also have no doubt that many Jews are now full fledged Christians, however this is the easy way for a Jew, and satan made pig taste so good so even I miss sausage gravy and biscuits also Lobster, ect. But the big picture is what does the Torah say? I think with head knowledge a Jew becomes a Christian, I doubt he really sees the glory of Messiah. IMO. Shalom u'vrachot |
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Jeordin
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Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 15, 2009 19:11:05 GMT -5
jeordin you make me laugh- pioneer wasnt trashing christians-- he was trashing christianity and lawless hypocritical christians. christian apology is the art of defending you beliefs. we can be considered apologetic laymen. (ie. apologists without the alphabet in front of their name, or people who have less degreees than a thermometor, not more) [this reminds me of a time when Dr. Phil, Ph.D. said that he had as many degrees as a thermometor. i almost laughed. i wnted to send him a book by freud on the 'ego', lol] Oh sorry it seemed like he was trashing Christians. It wasn't really the point of my post, and I have no idea exactly what that was anyways Ha, you make me laugh, one to talk about ego huh?!  |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 15, 2009 23:10:42 GMT -5
Thank you for your response. I shall get back to you in a few days about this. I have other things that I must do first, though. I will not forget to respond. |
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