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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 7, 2009 16:22:31 GMT -5
Oops, I accidentally edited this post.
Let me try to change it back.
Micah 5:2
2"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity."
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Post by pioneer on Apr 7, 2009 16:57:36 GMT -5
NLB, remember the thread, Reward for trinity! I know how close Yeshua comes to saying he is Y H V H , but but no where does he suggest you jump off a cliff. This is just what you and those like you have advocated and done. All the places where he PLAINLY tells you he is sent to do a job and he does it he is, fully human and Y H V H when he is resurrected reinstates his heavenly character to him. So says scripture, no false trinity. scripture says Y H V H is Spirit, Yeshua is now Spirit, scripture says we will be transformed into Spirit at resurrection, I don't forfit my call to election by teaching a manmade dogma. I am not denying His humanity or the fact that He was sent to do a job. Let me ask you this: Is there only one Almighty God? Or do you believe there can be two Almighty Gods? Actually, Scripture teaches that Yeshua rose bodily from the dead. It is the same body that He died in, but it is glorified. It has been changed to a resurrected body....the same kind of body that believers will get when He returns. Jehovah's Witnesses believe the same thing that you do about Yeshua, and they believe the same thing that you do about His resurrection. They deny that it was a bodily resurrection. Y H V H Is echad, Yeshua, came into the upper room spiritually/supernaturally, he did not enter by the door. Sooooooooooo, like Sha'ul i don't know what we shall be, but I do know we shall be as he is! Scriptural! LOL, just maybe the JW's have something right. ^^^^^^^^^ Even JW's can read. I am of the Way! My Moshiach said "I am the way," If you love me keep the commandments. Amen. |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 7, 2009 17:04:10 GMT -5
Y H V H Is echad, Yeshua, came into the upper room spiritually/supernaturally, he did not enter by the door. Sooooooooooo, like Sha'ul i don't know what we shall be, but I do know we shall be as he is! Scriptural! LOL, just maybe the JW's have something right. ^^^^^^^^^ Even JW's can read. I am of the Way! My Moshiach said "I am the way," If you love me keep the commandments. Amen. Because His body was of the resurrected type, which could walk through walls and whatnot. |
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Post by pioneer on Apr 7, 2009 17:18:02 GMT -5
Ecclesiastes 2:11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun. Jeremiah 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. 2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. No profit, no reward! Then why do it? Why must everything have a reward attached to it? I believe in the Trinity because that is what I have been convinced of through Scripture. I really don't care about rewards. Won't we lay all our rewards down at the feet of Yeshua anyway? Isn't that what is proper to do? Isn't all done for His glory. It's not to us, and it's not about us. It should be about Him. Seems you again ignored scripture, in favor of your dogma. You said "won't we", What reward will you have? to lay at anyone's feet. I suppose you would not accept it if it is given. Do you know how to schlep treasure up to heaven?(tongue in cheek) What lays up treasure in heaven? Do you know why not one person either in his audience or the talmidim ever said? "Say What?" Why not? There are many things Christians are not fully aware of, this is one of them. I too am not working for a wage, but I believe all the things he said about what the Father will bestow upon the ones who Shema v'shamar/hear and observe. Baruch Hashem |
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Post by pioneer on Apr 7, 2009 17:21:38 GMT -5
Y H V H Is echad, Yeshua, came into the upper room spiritually/supernaturally, he did not enter by the door. Sooooooooooo, like John I don't know what we shall be, but I do know we shall be as he is! Scriptural! LOL, just maybe the JW's have something right. ^^^^^^^^^ Even JW's can read. I am of the Way! My Moshiach said "I am the way," If you love me keep the commandments. Amen. Because His body was of the resurrected type, which could walk through walls and whatnot. And this has been revealed to you and not to John! HUUM! I also suppose you like most Christians believe in the immortality if the soul? |
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Post by John on Apr 7, 2009 17:27:01 GMT -5
i believe in th eimmortality of the soul.
and NLB: Yeshua wxisted with YHVH as the word. he was then formed as metatron. than he came to earth temporarily a human, and ressurected as metatron, but with even more powera s a reward of his dying for us.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 7, 2009 18:15:29 GMT -5
i believe in th eimmortality of the soul. and NLB: Yeshua wxisted with YHVH as the word. he was then formed as metatron. than he came to earth temporarily a human, and ressurected as metatron, but with even more powera s a reward of his dying for us. Just why do Yeshua and all the Talmidim tell us we should become like him-- one of my early writings; Was GODS only SON not told about our “IMMORTAL SOUL”? Isn’t it strange that the Son of GOD offered to give us a gift of what we already possessed? Immortality! Then, along comes Paul to tell us to put on the mantle we already wear. Immortality! How is it that God kept this secret from his Son and his favorite Apostle? Only to reveal it to those called “Christian”! It goes on, but you get the big picture. 1 Corinthians 15:53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Shalom |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 7, 2009 19:10:59 GMT -5
i believe in th eimmortality of the soul. and NLB: Yeshua wxisted with YHVH as the word. he was then formed as metatron. than he came to earth temporarily a human, and ressurected as metatron, but with even more powera s a reward of his dying for us. And what is the Word? Isn't the Word YHVH? |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 7, 2009 19:21:50 GMT -5
Okay, here is another couple verses (don't worry -- they go together) Matthew 3:3 3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said, "THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'M AKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!'"Isaiah 40:3 3A voice is calling, "Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness; Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God. Matthew, Luke, and Mark all were referring to Isaiah 40:3 and saying that John the Baptist was to prepare the way for Yeshua. When you go to Isaiah 40:3, it is YHVH who is being talked about. LORD in all caps in the OT means YHVH. Therefore Yeshua is YHVH. If Yeshua is not YHVH, how do you explain this?  |
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Post by John on Apr 7, 2009 19:24:28 GMT -5
i think Yeshua was ressurected bodily.
let me read the verses real quick NLB... i will get back to you on taht.
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 7, 2009 19:50:55 GMT -5
Because His body was of the resurrected type, which could walk through walls and whatnot. And this has been revealed to you and not to John! HUUM! I also suppose you like most Christians believe in the immortality if the soul? Luke 24:37-39 37But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40A nd when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.41While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish;43and He took it and ate it before them. Notice the following things: 1.) He first rebuked them for having doubts and not believing 2.) He asked them to feel and see and touch His body. If this is not a real body, but trying to get them to think that He did, He would have been trying to deceive them. 3.) He also ate to offer further proof |
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Post by John on Apr 7, 2009 20:17:09 GMT -5
Pioneer- you do not think he was bodily ressurected? sorry, but that is foolishness.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 7, 2009 20:31:17 GMT -5
1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
From the one whom Yeshua loved, the great releavelator. But you know, how quaint!
I for one am fed up with your Christian clanging/noise.
Convinced set in concrete by interprtations of a biased NT, with not even a glimmer of knowlege of the Hebrew Torah language, never reading any info from anyone but Christians steeped in the same upchuck.
Never would I go into someone elses house and try to tell them how I am right and you are wrong.
But no such compunction from a convinced Christian!
I left the Christian religion when I could not find the blond haired, blue eyed Jesus I had been taught in SS, I found a Jewish Yeshua who never darkened a church house door, never attended a Christian holiday and never ever said the Holy, Just and Good Torah was nailed to the cross! Blasphemy to the Nth degree!
I said earlier to put up or shut up, you have done neither. You are making me sick with the purveying of this drivle.
Shalom
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Post by pioneer on Apr 7, 2009 20:38:13 GMT -5
Pioneer- you do not think he was bodily ressurected? sorry, but that is foolishness. Flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. John did not know what we will be but a Christian does. BS! Pardon my french. Yes he did do all those things she said, but His word is more binding to me than NLB. |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 7, 2009 23:37:46 GMT -5
1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. From the one whom Yeshua loved, the great releavelator. But you know, how quaint! I for one am fed up with your Christian clanging/noise. Convinced set in concrete by interprtations of a biased NT, with not even a glimmer of knowlege of the Hebrew Torah language, never reading any info from anyone but Christians steeped in the same upchuck. Never would I go into someone elses house and try to tell them how I am right and you are wrong. But no such compunction from a convinced Christian! I left the Christian religion when I could not find the blond haired, blue eyed Jesus I had been taught in SS, I found a Jewish Yeshua who never darkened a church house door, never attended a Christian holiday and never ever said the Holy, Just and Good Torah was nailed to the cross! Blasphemy to the Nth degree! I said earlier to put up or shut up, you have done neither. You are making me sick with the purveying of this drivle. Shalom Now you are insulting me! Calling Trinitarian beliefs upchuck was uncalled for. This thread is about the Trinity. Isn't it only fair that both sides of the argument be stated on a thread that is discussing the Trinity? I'm not telling you you have to believe it. I'm telling you why I believe it, and we are having a debate about it. It's up to you whether or not you believe it. I have never once insulted anyone's beliefs here. When did I ever deny that Yeshua was Jewish? When did I ever say that He had blond hair and blue eyes? this thread has been about the Trinity, not about what Jesus may or may not have looked like. If I'm making you sick, then simply don't visit this thread anymore. People who are still interested in the conversation can talk to me. It is quite obvious to me that you have absolutely no respect for me or for my beliefs. Since this is the case, I would rather not talk to you either, Pioneer. Quite frankly, you are being disrespectful to me and other trinitarians. I'm still open to discussing this topic with anyone else on this forum, though. |
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 7, 2009 23:58:26 GMT -5
If no one wants to talk about this further, that is fine.
I was just saying that if there was still interest, I'm willing to continue the discussion with anyone who wishes to.
I will leave if the general consensus is that you do not want a divergent viewpoint on your forums.
Just let me know. I do not mean to cause trouble.
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Post by itiswritten on Apr 10, 2009 9:39:44 GMT -5
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.Where was Yeshua when He said that, and where was His Father? Yeshua was on earth and His Father was in heaven. At the time that Yeshua said that, His Father was positionally greater than He was. To be fair, this is one verse that offers evidence against Yeshua's deity. As I have said on other threads, there is both evidence for and evidence against His deity. Each person needs to decide which evidence is stronger. I agree with that statement NLB. There are verses that could cause people to lean either direction on the topic. I think that is important that we look at the nature of Y'shua from birth to death separately from before or after that to avoid confusion. Although I was raised with a belief in the trinity, I believe that the weight of scripture shows that Y'shua was 100% human just like Adam was. Y'shua is called the "last Adam." He is not referred to as the "last God." Neither is YHVH referred to as the "last Adam." Adam was made in the image of Elohim and reflected him initially until that image was shattered. Y'shua is the express image of YHVH now. However we decide to define what "one" means, we can't just arbitrarily change and rearrange the rules. If we are to interpret the passage that says Y'shua and the Father are "One" as meaning "the same" then to be fair we would have to interpret it the same way here: John 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.John 17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.John 17:22
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: |
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Post by itiswritten on Apr 10, 2009 16:10:01 GMT -5
PS: itiswritten Brad scott came to Spokane, he was wonderul person a lot of people were there with a lot of different views wow.. One thing the people that asked him to come here never called us for fellowship or anyone.,, kind of sad a lot of people there didn't have a home fellowship to attend. But praise the lord, we found one in Idaho.. a wonderful place.. its about a hour away ... but worth the drive... Hey Veggirl, it good to hear from you. That's great. Yes, is a great teacher. It is also wonderful that you have found a place to fellowship. Really good news. Many of the people that I know are pretty much on their own out in the wilderness. It's nice when you can study and congregate with other people. Even when there are different beliefs, it can be good in that it often challenges us to research things that we probably wouldn't otherwise. take care, Keith |
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