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Post by thevicarsson on May 22, 2009 10:36:45 GMT -5
In my opinion and my opinion only this is how it happened.
God created beings and as we know beings is not man(human species)
God decide to add more species in to the mix. eventually ending up with sub-species which call breeds.
He decided that so it was a bit more interesting he would continue the process of evolution.
This is a very simple explanation and is in no way fact however i believe thats something along these lines happened.
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Post by John on May 22, 2009 11:10:10 GMT -5
interesting mat. i have a theory that i am coming up with right now: Yah created animals and man. he didnt create what we know as the millions of species that exist today however- instead, he created all of their anscestors. this explains some of the following: - how noach fit all the animals on the ark
- how the evolutionary process began; if we went by the original evolutionary theory than we cant explain how such complex creatures evolved, etc. we would also not understand how the life got there in the first place.
- etc.
anyway, i dot believe this now simply because i dont see enough proof for macro evolution. if someeone was to prove however, that macro evolution could happen, this could still be existant. shalom- john |
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Post by thevicarsson on May 23, 2009 13:53:36 GMT -5
The brilliance of this is that we there are thousands of ways that science and evolution can work together. Nobody who is all powerful enough in each sector will say that it happened like that because they take genisis too literaly
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Post by John on May 23, 2009 15:02:46 GMT -5
in all reality, even the most literal interpretation of genesis is compatable with not only micro-evolution but also macro evolution. it just depends on whether that scientific theory brings enough evidence to you.
actually, a fossil has been found recently and the word 'missing link' has been thrown around with it. well see where this fossil takes science.
shalom- john
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Jonatan
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Post by Jonatan on May 25, 2009 8:19:21 GMT -5
Satan uses Word of God also, but in the opposite direction, to confuse us and lead us astray. The same he was trying to do with Yeshua - He uses Word of God as a weapon for those who study it, to lure them into it. The only thing how we can defend is to accept love for truth - as is in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
As we see, this will be the problem for many people in last days, they shall be condemned, because they didn't love truth.
Do you know what spirit stands beyond allegorization of undeniable literal truth and other scriptures that are to be taken literally, otherwise our faith would be vain? It's no other than Spirit of Antichrist - the one who shows himself to be 'God', masking himself as Mashiach (possibly masking himself as Yeshua) - this spirit goes against the Scripture, the Word, the most precious thing given us by our Lord - and it's Himself, saying to us truth. This is my most formidable adversary - I would say he's the greatest weapon of our enemy, HaSatan. I have spied his ways many times and must admit that this is the worst enemy which I have to fight most.
Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus CHRIST)= Word of God
Anti-CHRIST = "Word of God" - turned in contra-direction
Do you really think Lord our God was unable to create everything written in Genesis just in 7 days, literally?
Please do not take this as an offence and do not think I fight against you - BY NO MEANS am I attacking you, I want to warn everyone who has an ears to hear and to help just everyone who is one of us that love our Lord more than self.
If we agree with evolution theory, we are doing compromise with wisdom of this world. (This shows us what spirit stands beyond this doctrine - Spirit of Antichrist) These are things that have to be taken literally as I mentioned before - as all the miracles, otherwise we would deny the allmightiness of our God.
If you want to find parables and allegorical meanings in these Chapters, such as Bereshit(Genesis) is, build literal fundament first - believe it to be literal, then you will be correct to interpret it correctly in spiritual meaning also.
If the 'symbolical', 'allegorical', 'spiritual' meanings are not based on literal fundament, then you are being lead astray, not being founded on the very, most sure fundament that will never shatter - Word of God.
btw. Evolution theory has many holes. I'm not an expert on evolution and creation theory, I'm not a scientist, but I know something - there are some films about Evolution proving how and where it can be easily shattered.
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Post by John on May 25, 2009 14:03:28 GMT -5
okay, Yah can create the world in 7 days, but what point does he have in doing so? he is not bound to time, so why?
plus, thought the evolution theory has many holes as i staed before, if evolutionists could somehow patch these holes up than i would be the first to believe in it. the bible does not contradict science.
also no one said that the literalness of genesis has to be destroyed to believe in evolution. i pointed out one way that evolution COULD be true and still be read into the literal genesis.
and you are way to literal with the word of Yah. there are some things that just cant be taken literally. and although genesis is not one of them in my opinion, you still take things way to literally.
shalom- john
PS- nice debate going on here.
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Jonatan
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Post by Jonatan on May 26, 2009 5:01:30 GMT -5
There can be something true in some 'sparks' of evolution theory, but anyway, we should say: We can't know that.
Science many times don't contradict Word of God, but there are demonic doctrines in science that cannot fit the Word, because it would lead into many and many other changes in the Word wherefore Word is more important than heaven and earth - heaven and earth shall pass away rather than the Word.
And yeah - science development advances in waves or sinusoids or what.
Sometimes, it contradicts the Word, and later, scientists disprove the former heresy and find something new, and than again and again. Well, sometimes I think "scientific discoveries" are manipulated by the people (scientists believing evolution) that are doing it just how does it fit for them and their beliefs.
Concerning some parts of 'possible evolution', maybe some animals - but no any change to human race.
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Post by John on May 26, 2009 13:54:57 GMT -5
there are demonic doctrines in everything now.
i think that evolution is the best scientific theory that one has for he origins of the earth apart from religion. however, if we put religion in, origins can be solved. but if volution were to be true, there would be no problem fitting it into the bible.
i agree with your idea that evolution is false jonotan- but i dont think that it is demonic, and i definately dont just throw the theory out. it is a possibility, but not fact right now. my only point is that if there was a way that it could be proven, it should be accepted. religion should never in any form reject science. religion is a science of the spiritual, and science is a science of the flesh- they complimnt each other, and our knoweledge would be warped if we were without one. Yaakov stresses completeness, but we would be incomplete without both sciences (see 'justification')
shalom- john
shalom- john
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Jonatan
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Post by Jonatan on May 27, 2009 7:49:34 GMT -5
Yeah, right!
However, science in comparison to Word of God, to Lord Almighty, is not that powerful. It cannot answer the questions of the spiritual realms, it cannot prove nor disprove it. -
These things must be still accepted by faith. There are people who experienced clinical death, have seen either parts of heaven or hell, and then were returned by Lord back to their bodies. The only reports we have in this is through faith that we believe them. None of them could ever imagine what did they experience.
Science is not almighty and Einstein knew it also
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anochria
B'nai Elohim
Pastor of Aletheia Christian Fellowship
Posts: 194
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Post by anochria on May 27, 2009 12:47:24 GMT -5
John wrote:
To go from "ancestors" to "millions of species"* in just around 6,000 years would be macro evolution on a scale way beyond what naturalist evolutions suppose.
This is one of the biggest problems I have with "young earth creationism".
*like say, one kind of bear on the ark to all the different kinds of bears now.
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Post by John on May 27, 2009 14:55:02 GMT -5
i never said that i thought the earth was 6000 years old.
remember that hebrew genealogies have a LOT of gaps in them. it is traditional. so the OT dating the earth project can only prove that the earth is AT LEAST 6000 years old.
shalom- john
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anochria
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Pastor of Aletheia Christian Fellowship
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Post by anochria on May 27, 2009 22:27:57 GMT -5
Sorry... I thought for some reason that you held that view.
Much agreed.
Also, my understanding of the OT geneologies is that in Hebrew they can be read,
"when so and so was such and such an age, he became the ancestor of so and so" rather than necessarily "the father of so and so"
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Post by John on May 28, 2009 18:06:17 GMT -5
"ben" means "son of" which can mean either direct or inderect descendant. it can also be metaphrocal, etc.
all in all the term"ben" (son of) is used very losely in the hebrew culture.
shalom- john
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Post by thevicarsson on May 29, 2009 7:07:58 GMT -5
This thread suddenly got really active. The missing link is a very interesting find, it obviously is not Apelike and is not Homo(humanite) which means it can only be placed as part of the evolutionary transition.
Matty
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Post by John on May 29, 2009 14:24:32 GMT -5
well, there are a couple of parts that i would disagreee with that point of view, but all in all, it is a great find for archaeologists. but this may be just like the archaeopterix incident.
shalom- john
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Post by thevicarsson on Jun 12, 2009 9:19:13 GMT -5
Maybe. And as we all know Evolution is quite flawed as is Creation(as in the theories) but why can't they work together.
A passage from the bible which i can't cite now is talking from God says 1000 years to you is a day to me. So doesn't that mean the earth wascreated in 7000 years in even the most literal of Genisis translations.
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Post by John on Jun 12, 2009 14:01:39 GMT -5
peter teaches the doctrine that a day to Yah is a thousand years, vice verse. this is taught by the book of Jubilee as well, however, and jubilee still supports the theory of literal days of creation.
(ie, on yomim rishon Yah created light).
but Genesis can be reconciled with the theory of evolution, no doubt.
no use speculating until evolution is absolutely proven to be true.
shalom- john
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Jonatan
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Post by Jonatan on Jun 15, 2009 6:39:47 GMT -5
In that case we have only three possibilities if we really take Word of God to be true:
1. Either literal 7 days
2. Or according to Peter - 7000 years (if 1 day is 1000 years)
3. Or very uncomprehensible micro-period for us humans (that would be what is 1 day to 1000 years - 1/1000th part of day for one day = 0,001 for each day, and so 7/7000 for seven days)
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Post by John on Jun 15, 2009 17:15:14 GMT -5
i dont think what Peter was saying can be applied to all scriptures--- i think it was a midrash, and cannot be applied literally as some try to do. but to each his own, this is not the place to discuss such.
plus, there is also the Gap theory, which i put a lot of weight to.
shalom- john
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