Jonatan
B'nai Elohim
BLUE
Posts: 260
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Post by Jonatan on Apr 23, 2009 11:07:51 GMT -5
I am starting a new thread which I see somehow interesting to be discussed. I believe that HaSatan, the first rebel against YHVH, who started revolt in heaven, is the consequence of all the things formerly set by YHVH that were good, but later were corrupted, turned on "evil side", while keeping the same image.
As well as HaSatan still keeps his image being the "angel of light" who is the ancestor of all deceit.
By these circumstances, there exist duality. YHVH is the creator, Satan is imitator. The same will occur with the Antichrist - or two Antichrists (the Beast and False Prophet) - it's nothing more than satanic version of Mashiach - imitation.
Next thing - there exist in contrary Bat Yerushalaim(Daughter of Jerusalem) and Bat Babel(Daughter of Babylon). Or the wife of the Lamb and the whore "Great Babylon".
I'd like all with knowledge of Jewish traditions, including extra-biblical sources to post or find if there can be found such BLACK & WHITE tendency of spiritual contrasts. Try to compare work of YHVH with work of HaSatan - anywhere and from any case.
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Post by John on Apr 23, 2009 16:31:12 GMT -5
most jewish people dont believe in the christian satan... they think that he is an angel doing the will of YHVH.- sammael. not that the job is sinful, but that it is not a pleasant and wanted job... they think that the tempter is totally under YHVH's control, tempting the tzaddik to see just how devoted they are.
but i dont beleive this... however, i dont think HaSatan is the equal evil of YHVH either. duality is not the case... well, it could loosely be considered duality, but not exact duality.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 23, 2009 17:08:06 GMT -5
quote author=admin board=generaldiscussion thread=68 post=966 time=1240522272]most jewish people dont believe in the christian satan... they think that he is an angel doing the will of YHVH.- sammael. not that the job is sinful, but that it is not a pleasant and wanted job... they think that the tempter is totally under YHVH's control, tempting the tzaddik to see just how devoted they are. but i dont beleive this... however, i dont think HaSatan is the equal evil of YHVH either. duality is not the case... well, it could loosely be considered duality, but not exact duality.[/quote]  cacamammie idea |
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Jonatan
B'nai Elohim
BLUE
Posts: 260
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Post by Jonatan on Apr 24, 2009 6:56:11 GMT -5
most jewish people dont believe in the christian satan... they think that he is an angel doing the will of YHVH.- sammael. not that the job is sinful, but that it is not a pleasant and wanted job... they think that the tempter is totally under YHVH's control, tempting the tzaddik to see just how devoted they are. but i dont beleive this... however, i dont think HaSatan is the equal evil of YHVH either. duality is not the case... well, it could loosely be considered duality, but not exact duality. Alright, I fully know and recognize the work of HaSatan. That he NOW is a great tempter and reports sins of humanity so that he can make YHVH angry on humanity and have just reasons to condemn someone. But do you think, even in Jewish tradition that this "Angel of light" as he present himself is good and not the enemy of YHVH, Himself? When you read NT, Yeshua gives us clear image of HaSatan, what his true face is and what will happen to him. Revelation, chapter 12 say that HaSatan is the worst enemy, firstly - the enemy of God and then enemy of humans. Yeshua is the one - the prince that has been annointed to crush and destroy Satan, utterly. It is HaSatan, who is the fallen morning star and worst enemy of YHVH. He started it all. Ezekiel says retrospectively about King of Tyrus - the spiritual dominion over Tyrus in those times - and by these sayings, stated by Ezekiel, it is HaSatan with no doubts, the enemy of YHVH, that existed BEFORE any human was created. Ezekiel mentions him as a cherub, worship-leader in heaven that has exalted himself and by this way, corrupted himself. Also Isaiah mentions him as a fallen son of morning star. Yeshua tells us truth - For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son for everyone believing in him. God loves people and does not tempt anyone. That's the work of evil - enemies of Lord. Do you think humanity is worse enemy of YHVH than HaSatan, father of lies, the first murderer and thief? |
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 24, 2009 15:05:23 GMT -5
most jewish people dont believe in the christian satan... they think that he is an angel doing the will of YHVH.- sammael. not that the job is sinful, but that it is not a pleasant and wanted job... they think that the tempter is totally under YHVH's control, tempting the tzaddik to see just how devoted they are. but i dont beleive this... however, i dont think HaSatan is the equal evil of YHVH either. duality is not the case... well, it could loosely be considered duality, but not exact duality. Hey I found a verse yesterday when I was reading about Jezebel and Ahab that sort of backs up the angel theory thing. well, I think it does: 1 Kings22: 19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning theewhat do you think? |
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Jonatan
B'nai Elohim
BLUE
Posts: 260
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Post by Jonatan on Apr 25, 2009 7:36:16 GMT -5
Lord do not tempt anyone - only perfect gift comes from the Father of Lights(James ch1 or 2? - find).
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 26, 2009 15:46:17 GMT -5
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear(1 Corinthians 10:13)
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Post by John on Apr 26, 2009 16:20:05 GMT -5
wow- you really are reading scripture alot more arent you jeordin?
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 27, 2009 16:53:12 GMT -5
Yes, thank you for noticing
elohel, ;D
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Jonatan
B'nai Elohim
BLUE
Posts: 260
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Post by Jonatan on May 4, 2009 7:16:41 GMT -5
By this thread I wanted to show how Satan intrudes into plans of YHVH and makes fakes, imitations.
The first messianic prophecy has been told to Adam and Eve.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
Genesis 3:15
This says about HaMashiach to come. First people were acknowledged with the promise of coming savior of all humanity to redeem all from sin. By history, Satan's influence through his fallen angels and (or) nephiliim commanded lives of people who first developed system of false religions. This has been done in Babylonian tower.
Nimrod is one of the first images of Antichrist. His wife, after his death has developed the heathen polyteic religious system which is known today as cult of mother with child ('Catholic Mary' with 'Catholic Jesus' belong here) by claiming that Nimrod, her death husband has become God and her new-born child is allegedly his son, explaining that she conceived being still virgin - because of 'her husband, God'. Because of this event, her son was thought to be the Messiah - the seed of woman promised to Adam and Eve. Do not marvel that all the heathen religious systems have idols - as 'Gods born by immaculate birth' before Abraham was born. That's why there exist 'heathen messiahs', which in my opinion carry the spirit of Antichrist. - as well as all the kings or rulers, claiming to be God in history. Satan knows the prophecies and promises given to men and his main and the strongest aim (I believe) is to decieve people - I think false prophets and false messiahs are Satan's most snaky and ultimate weapons.
Shalom
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Post by John on May 4, 2009 14:11:19 GMT -5
well, the giants are hasatans chosen people- the seed of the serpent- while the jews are YHVH's chosen people.(see pery stones teachings on this).
the false prophet, antichrist and satan (according to christian theologians- i say something different) supposedyly form an unholy trinity.
i think that hasatan imitates YHVH, and the first beast imatates the mashiach ben yosef, while the second beast acts as the mashiach ben david, lifting the mashich ben david up for his suffering, and may even raise him from the dead.
shalom- john
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cacamammie idea