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Post by John on Apr 8, 2009 19:09:07 GMT -5
Okay, i hav seen hints and outrght comments that people do not beleive that Yshua rose bodily. this is interesting, and i personally have never heard the argument for this point of view. i would like to see the agument for both sides.
i think Yeshua DID rise bodily-- he definately SEEMED to try convincing the disciples that he was in a body.
but, post your comments.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 8, 2009 19:39:28 GMT -5
Had flesh and bone! The John whom Yeshua loved, said he didn't know just how we shal be but he knew that we will be as he is. My detractor assumed I didn't think he rose with flesh and bone, but if it is written and verified, I believe.
I think both John and Sha'ul tell us that we will be changed, and flesh and blood shall not be in the kingdom. SSoooooooooo- It does not appear how we shall be, But whatever we know we will be as HE IS!~!!!!!!
This may be my last post till after the Sabbaths, so if you do not seem, Shabbat Shalom
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Post by John on Apr 8, 2009 22:07:35 GMT -5
shabbat shalom pioneer.
i do not think he rose in a flesh body... but he was not in a spirit form either. he was in the translated form, as our ressurected bodies will be. it will still be a body, just now not flesh and not incorruptable.
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Jonatan
B'nai Elohim
BLUE
Posts: 260
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Post by Jonatan on Apr 10, 2009 7:29:22 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom!
Yeshua after his ressurection had wierd body - heavenly body, but He COULD EAT! Marvelous. It is written that He was able to move and appear whereever He wanted to, even through wall. Spiritual body is not restricted by this material world. If you know some films such as Death & Beyond, Escape from Hell, or testimonies of Ian McCormack - he turned to God and became a christian (of course, true christian) - I advice you to look these testimonies. If we are out of this - fleshly body, we may move through any material obstacle.
Shabbat Shalom again
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Post by John on Apr 11, 2009 22:14:52 GMT -5
let me modify what i said. Yeshua said he had flesh and bone after the resurection so you know what- i am undecided on this part of the scripture.
and jonotan- if you look in genesis even YHVH and the angels can eat.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 12, 2009 12:57:24 GMT -5
Please show me where someone tells you in the bible they know what form Yeshua posessed after resurrection!
1Jo 3:2 John does not know how we shall appear! But we shall be as He is. Good enough for me.
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Post by John on Apr 12, 2009 13:46:01 GMT -5
Yeshua said that he is not a spirit for a spiri has not flesh and bones as Yeshua had (luke 24:39)
so there you go. i think that he may have been translateed as he was making his way to heaven because flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of [heaven/God?]
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Post by pioneer on Apr 12, 2009 15:56:44 GMT -5
Yeshua said that he is not a spirit for a spiri has not flesh and bones as Yeshua had (luke 24:39) so there you go. i think that he may have been translateed as he was making his way to heaven because flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of [heaven/God?] So he did not tell you What He was, only that He was not. PS Is it safe to Assumehe had no blood? No mention of blood, flesh and bone, was there no life in Him? Life is in the blood, Le 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it for you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement, by reason of the life. |
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Post by John on Apr 12, 2009 17:13:38 GMT -5
read the scripture...
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Post by pioneer on Apr 12, 2009 20:15:20 GMT -5
I have read the scripture, I asked you a question. Not that I needed an answer, but asked to see the response, didn't get one. |
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Post by John on Apr 12, 2009 22:46:22 GMT -5
well... i d ont think it is safe to assume that he had no blood. you are taking the metaphor 'flesh and bones' too literally. he does not mean ONLY flesh and bones because he undoubtedly had hair, etc... you cannot say 'he did not have blood because he didnt sa y he had blood'
also, Yeshua is the resurection and the LIFE. he is the blood that gives our flesh the life of the ressurection. leviticus was not refering to OUR blood giving our flesh life, it was referring to Yeshuas blood that is put on the heavenly alter, that gives our bodies LIFE through the RESSURECTION.
so i think that you misunderstood that verse entirely (or i did, one).
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Post by pioneer on Apr 13, 2009 14:04:27 GMT -5
well... i d ont think it is safe to assume that he had no blood. you are taking the metaphor 'flesh and bones' too literally. he does not mean ONLY flesh and bones because he undoubtedly had hair, etc... you cannot say 'he did not have blood because he didnt sa y he had blood' also, Yeshua is the resurection and the LIFE. he is the blood that gives our flesh the life of the ressurection. leviticus was not refering to OUR blood giving our flesh life, it was referring to Yeshuas blood that is put on the heavenly alter, that gives our bodies LIFE through the RESSURECTION. so i think that you misunderstood that verse entirely (or i did, one). LOL I agree we are not to assume, altho he had an open wound in his side, did he not? Nail holes in his hands? It seems you are holding the same understandings as a Christian about the Blood of the Lamb/Yeshua, we do not have his blood flowing in our veins. How did the Passoved lamb save the people of the exodus? Painted on the door posts of your home. In Hebrew thought Yeshua's blood on our doorposts/wash your robe in thereby salvation. jus the same as the exodus salvation. It seems that you are idolizing Jesus. As the son of God raised to the right hand of God, now makes him worthy of praise, but not to idolize him as a man on the earth, this would break one of Y H V H 's commandments to make a likeness of anything in heaven and in earth into an idol. Aaaaahhhhh yes, God wanted you to have an image of a man to be your idol, so he came as a man. FCOL, "Not an man that he should lie." I kid you not! 1Jo 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. |
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Post by John on Apr 13, 2009 15:18:35 GMT -5
Yes.... YHVH sent his son so that we may live through Yeshua. We live BY YHVH and THROUGH Yeshua.
i was never claiming that Yeshua's blood runs through our veins. I am saying that our flesh will live because of his sacrifice of blood. he gives us life by the ressurection through his sacrifice of blood. and we recieve the life from YHVH through Yeshua.
YHVH is the giver of life, but Yeshua made that giving of life possible.
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Jonatan
B'nai Elohim
BLUE
Posts: 260
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Post by Jonatan on Apr 14, 2009 5:00:34 GMT -5
First, YHVH and Yeshua were before everything. How can you say they are not live if they have no blood. Truly, life is in blood in the earth - every creature and living human has blood in which is the life - and God demands this blood when one is killed from murderer's hand. Do you think God (and so Yeshua also) does need blood for living? He that created all?
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
(Colossians 1:15-17)
However, it is not necessary to have blood in heaven and in those new, eternal bodies. Living in heaven is greater level of living than in the earth. If Yeshua must have the stripes on His hands after resurrection, even in His eternal body, it's only for one reason - important sign by which apostle Thomas could believe it's He. And also in Yeshua's return - it'll be needed so that Yisrael may see whom they have pierced - as is written in Zechariah.
Second, Yeshua is Word of God in first. What is His blood? What is the blood of the Word of God? Or his flesh? RCC misused this by creating their abominable "eucharistia". But what Yeshua meant by His statements about His flesh and blood? Firstly - his heroic act of sacrificing Himself for us - His self renunciation and "violence" on His law by His mercy.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
(Ephesians 2:14-16)
If the Lord had to be righteous, He would have to condemn all humanity, and everyone would go to Sheol, as the Gentile Nations, even likewise whole Israel.
If blood of Word of God have been spilled for us, it's because it was spilled the blood of law that all humanity should be condemned, because punishment for sin is death. But God so loved us, that He did not count our sins until we accepted Yeshua as our Messiah. That's it - as we see, it has both two levels - literal and spiritual. The literal is that Word of God became human that has been killed, sacrificed. The spiritual effect of this is that Word of God's punishment has been abolished by His mercy so that we may become His possession. Now, judgment is over - it will occur only on those insolent ones, who are truly determined for condemnation - those who will crucify Yeshua second time - as the Word of God that resides in them. Therefore, condemnation is not for those who wander in darkness, in Satan's prison of sin, but for those who were once freed, but became apostates, who mock His mercy.
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 12:12:35 GMT -5
i know what you meant, but word it better next time-- you just implied that YHVH is not righteous in his judgment.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 14, 2009 18:05:05 GMT -5
Aren't we glad that Y H V H doesn't send a lightning bolt to strike all those who speak rashly? Oh, yes!I'd be a smoldering stump.
LOL
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 18:11:07 GMT -5
lol.yes i am glad.
but to bring the point up- sometimes he seems to do that. i esplain that by reminding myself i dont know that persons internal thoughts. it may not have been rash or a mistake.
wouldnt it be ironic if an atheist uses the saying 'if God is real, why doesnt he strike me now' and ends up dying from lightning? this happened.
so even though YHVH is merciful, he is a judge as well. he is righteous, but we fail to see just how bad sin really is because we are always around it. so even though YHVH may not strike us down immeadiately, he may eventually.
i know that was a lol funny, but i decided to share some of the philisophical wisdom that i have acquired over the years,lol (thats funny if you know my age).
john
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