Eschatologic timeline

[John]

i have created and revised my eschatologic timeline mant times... i was interested in what you guys thought the order of events is going to be starting with the beginning of the 70th week.

i have yet to come up with a revised tieline, but when i do, i will post it immeadiately.

[John]

alright... i can give a HIGHLY paraphrased version of it so far.

the tribulation starts. Judgements are cast. the messianics (messainc jews and christians and other believers in Yeshua) are perssecuted. the prophecies of Yisrael are fulfilled. A nation rises up that is either (1) uniting the world (2) uniting ten particular kingdoms of the Middle east. Then a false prophet, the antichrist, comes to control this kingdom. he performs miracles and causes people to pledge alleience to the new order of things by branding them with three marks. Then hanech and Eliyahu come. They tell that the machiach will come, but will be persecuted. They will convince the politicians to help rebuild the temple. They rebuild the temple for 42 months. Then, as soon as the temple will be ready to be rebuilt, the false prophet will march in, and defile the temple. He will kill Hanech and Eliyahu. Theuy will rise again in 3 days and than be raptured up to heaven. This is when the last 3 1/2 years come into play. more judgments, worse. Then, at the end of the 7 years, there will be the ressurection and the rapture of the saints. we will meet Yeshua in the air and hold the wedding supper. then we will come down with Yeshua on the Mount of Olives. the mount of olives will explode with water, that forms a river that flows through the defiled temple that will be purified and cleansed 75 days later. Then there will be armaggedon, and HaSatan will be chained and bound in the pit.

at the end of the 1000 yrs, HaSatan will be loosed temporarily. He will be defeated finally after the battle of Gog and Magog (demonic principalities) and all evil thrown into the lake of fire, a modified form of sh'ol.

Then the earth will be transformed with fire, and the messianic world will be set into play...


You will not be able to fully understand my timeline until i make all of my doctrinal postitional posts (i will tell you where they are when i post them). but you should be able to get a vague idea.

shalom- John

[Jonatan]

quite good John, except for some things...

7 seals are opened first - alright - the world is affected by these plagues. These 7 seals continue by blowing the trumpets - seventh seal link eschatologic timeline to trumpets.

7 trumpets blowing - after 6-th trumpet, Two olives and two lampstands come into scene as "Two witnesses" - I discussed this on MTF with Itswritten. We have come into conclusion that rather Moses and Elijahu then Enoch and Elijah. Enoch is not such authority to Israel as Moses.

Proof of it is The Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31

"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Moses and Elijah are two highest authorities given to Yisrael - Moses as representant of Torah and Elijah as representant of Neviim - Prophets.
There are many references in prophets that Elijah will come before the glorious Day of the Lord. Malachi also stress Moses regarding eschatologic times.

Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
(Malachi 4:4-5)

If we look at signs Two witness do, it correspond rather to Moses than to Enoch.
It is written that:

If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.
These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
(Revelation 11:5-6)

Next thing, in Matthew Chapter 17, when disciples were with Yeshua in that hill, Moses and Elijah appeared to them unlike to anyone of OT prophets or people. That means Lord does not want Moses to stay in underworld, in Abraham's womb.
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
(Matthew 17:9)

That shows one thing - Lord is preparing them for these times when the 3rd temple shall be rebuilt - to prophesy 3,5 years (which is 42 months or 1260 days).
I see no sense why should Two witnesses not already have the 3rd temple, but only convince politicians to build it. The third temple should be built first than these Two witnesses come into scene. It is written there will be renewed zevach tamid - continual sacrifice - daily, morning and evening. Daniel says this sacrifice will be stopped first and then comes into temple HaShikoots MeShomem - abominable idol of destroyer. (Dan.9:27)
It is certain that Two witnesses must will be killed first, cos they will be possibly most powerful men in the earth - established by the Lord that time. Only after 3,5 years of their ministry is passed, Antichrist, the Beast ascending from Abyssos will kill them. Someone would say: How is this possible? How can Lord allow them to be killed? Well, there's said and established by the Lord that the Beast will be given the power to defeat all the holy ones - it's in
Daniel 7:21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them...
Daniel 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people.
Revelation 13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

So the Two witnesses fall, if it's will of God. But in 3 and half day they are ressurected and raptured up. The same occurs with us early after or within ressurection and rapture of these two - in 7th trumpet sounded. When the 7th trumpet is sounded, accounts of Rav Shaul in 1.Cor.15 and 1.Tes.4:13-18 and mention of the mystery of God - ressurection and rapture in Rev.10:7 occurs.

After this 3,5 years is period of Antichrist's tyranny on the earth. Lead by Satan himself and all the fallen angels that will be cast down to the earth by Michael, this will be a real terror - as never before. Those christians and messianics (most possibly liberal to sin and liberal to what Word of God says to them) who were not taken in rapture (and possibly all the people left in earth) have the second chance how not to be condemned for eternity - that is - rebellion against Antichrist. Not to bow down to him, same as Azariah, Chananiah and Mishael didn't bow to Nabukadnessar, nor to his golden image.
I believe the mark can be receive only by bowing down to the Beast. Some say about the Mark of the Beast to be the RFID microchip, but most possibly it's poppycock! If someone wants to discuss this, start a new thread about the Mark of the Beast or The Strange number 666.
Back to the thread - in period of Antichrist's and his false prophet's reign, the last plagues, wrath of God are poured down by 7 bowls of Lord's judgement.
Revelation 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God's wrath is completed.

I don't know exactly what time is the Great Babylon destroyed, but it must be destroyed somewhere in time of the Beast's reign.
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.
(Revelation 17:16-17)
Maybe in time of
Revelation 14:8 A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries."

Revelation Chapeter 17 and following Chapter 18, I believe these are retrospective and parallel with Revelation 13 and 14. If in Chapter 14 there's mention that Babylon has just fallen in that time, it should regard the end of Chapter 17 and whole Chapter 18.

And the 7th bown of Lord's judgement is the last which does one thing - gathers Antichrist and those who belong to him to Harmageddon in silly attempt to fight against Yeshua and us with Him in the clouds.

Then Revelation 19. Our coming with Yeshua down to the earth to bring vengeance to Antichrist and those who murdered us and our brethren. Good thing is that we have also some eschatologic Psalms - I believe them to be eschatologic - just let us see and compare.
Psalm 110
1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the head over many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

Look closer at the verse 6 - It think it to mention about the Beast ruling over many countries. However I don't know what means verse 3 - "thou hast the dew of thy youth" and verse 7 - if someone know, tell it, for it may help.

Psalm 149
1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD

Amazing how this Psalm is eschatologic - look at the verse 6 - "two-edged sword" will be in our hand. If we want to understand it otherwise what "in our hand" means, we should know that "hand" in Hebrew - "yad" means also power. When we say it's in our hand - so it's in our power. Word of God - which is two-edged sword (Ephesians 6:17, Hebrews 4:12) is that what we'll have in power. Most possibly we'll be saying: "In Yeshua's name - fire, or hailstone, or crushing waves, or other plagues on you!"

Then Revelation 20 takes place - Ressurection of the dead, killed in Antichrist kingdom and who did not bow to Beast and did not received the Mark of eternal condemnation. Then Satan bound and thrown to Abyssos, then 1000-yrs kingdom, then Satan unbound, deceiving Gog and Magog - they all will be defeated in moment. Then New Heaven and New Earth! Home-Sweet Home!

[John]

i will start a thread o;n this actually...
i am very intersted in what to believe..

the only problem is, mosheh died.. lets discuss it on another thread though.

[Jonatan]

Is there any possibility to post here PDF files so that you may download it from here? I'd like to post here my homemade Eschatologic chart - timeline.
It only 451 kB large.

[John]

May 13, 2009 9:26:10 GMT -5 Jonatan said:

Is there any possibility to post here PDF files so that you may download it from here? I'd like to post here my homemade Eschatologic chart - timeline.
It only 451 kB large.

you might want to copy- paste and put in 'image? i dont know. perhaps someone else can help you?

[anochria]

John,

Perhaps needless to say as an preterist/ amillenialism my eschatological timeline looks quite different. However, your view of Gog and Magog seems somewhat similar to mine:

Gog and Magog (demonic principalities)

What leads you to see Gog and Magog as demonic principalities rather than particular nationalities, etc..?

[John]

i think they are princes (which are spiritual rulers of al iteral city, land, etc) because the war of gog and magog will take place at the begining of the tribulation, yet gog is mentioned again after the 7 years are up-- therefore, they would have to refer to principalities AND nationalities. it is a simple doctrine, but takes to long to write about.

shalom- john

[anochria]

One problem I had with the pre-millenial position (even when I held it and especially now) was that a lot of prophecy gurus placed the "gog and magog" event at the beginning of the Tribulation (for no apparent solid Scriptural reason I could tell), even though the Scripture directly says it is an event that will happen at the end of the Millenium.

[John]

well, give me scriptures and i will believe you... thats not a big part of my theology, but even the smllest parts are improtant .

be not many teachers for you will recieve the greater [stricter] judgmet(yaakov 3:1)

[Jonatan]

Well, now it sounds odd to me also, but I believe there'll be two 'Gog and Magog events'.

the first - soon for us, before the Revelation start - Ezekiel 38 and 39 - when Israel is gathered from all the nations - and btw. there's NO "GOG AND MAGOG" - there's only Gog FROM Magog

the second - it will occur at the end of 1000yrs kingdom - as it's in Revelation 20. There is now "GOG AND MAGOG"

Sounds oddly, doesn't it? But Ezekiel 28 and 39 cannot be that easy connected with Revelation 20 - it doesn't seem to be the same.

[John]

interesting... i never lloked much into this. maybe i need to study more before i enter this debate?

i have made a new thread about gog and magoga... maybe you can talk about it there jonatan and anochria?

[itiswritten]

May 15, 2009 9:26:31 GMT -5 Jonatan said:

Well, now it sounds odd to me also, but I believe there'll be two 'Gog and Magog events'.

the first - soon for us, before the Revelation start - Ezekiel 38 and 39 - when Israel is gathered from all the nations - and btw. there's NO "GOG AND MAGOG" - there's only Gog FROM Magog

the second - it will occur at the end of 1000yrs kingdom - as it's in Revelation 20. There is now "GOG AND MAGOG"


Sounds oddly, doesn't it? But Ezekiel 28 and 39 cannot be that easy connected with Revelation 20 - it doesn't seem to be the same.

Eze 38:2 simply says: set thy face against Gog erets (land) haMaagog prince of chief Meshek and Tubaal

In other words it says: Gog land the Magog. It seems like a distinction without a difference to say Gog land the Magog or Gog and Magog.

Also the word tranlated as "and" in Revelation is also rendered as:

and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet