God's People in Oklahoma

[Jonatan]

This is something for you Keith.

If I remember well, you are somewhere from Oklahoma, correct?
I can't help but anytime now that I read some book from a God's man or about their ministry, I find out that many of them are from Oklahoma or they served in Tulsa which belongs also to Oklahoma.
Say, weren't you a disciple of one of them, e.g. Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin or T.L.Osborne and so on?

What are/were they like, for you?

[itiswritten]

Hey Jonatan, how have you been doing. I hope that you had a good feast. Yes, I have lived in Oklahoma most of my life. Yes, it is really strange how many well known ministries started or are located here. It seems like a lot of the Hebrew roots activity is in OK as well.

As far as the people from OK that you mentioned, I have never been a disciple of any of them. I have never met any of those guys. I think a lot of the guys started out half way on the right track, but ended up in the ditch. Many of them were taken in, and became big proponents of the prosperity gospel and all of that junk.

Are there many Hebrew roots people in your area? By the way, did you ever listen to any of the Torah teachings?

[Jonatan]

Ah the feast? You mean Pesach, not the Easter, do you?
Well, some vacancy is good, even if it's Easter. I don't care about Easter, but yeah, I should have remembered Pesach which was a day before I realized it.

Are there many Hebrew roots people in your area? By the way, did you ever listen to any of the Torah teachings?

Many Hebrew roots people in Slovakia? Nay, I don't think so.
It's a shame but it seems Jewish people are not that frequent and large community here in Bratislava, the Capital. They have only one mere synagogue here and some historical remains (e.g. Chatam Sofer). Obviously some of them hide cos many of them remember the terrors of holocaust. From time to time I see some of them, including Rabbi of Bratislava, Baruch Myers and his family - who is from America. But Nationalists and young neo-nazi fan groups exist even today. Shame of Slovakia - hopefully one day it will be uprooted once and for all. Good is, however, that political relations of Israel and Slovakia is going to be better (or so I hope).
This will be a great blessing. Blessing for all who bless Israel as was promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

About the Torah teachings: I have no place to listen to Torah teachings. But I believe that the hebrew spirit is in me and possibly I do have a similar spirit as some rabbis have which I find out sometimes when I either posted to this forum and gained replies or looked at some Messianic site where many things there were also my opinion. Who knows?

Many of them were taken in, and became big proponents of the prosperity gospel and all of that junk.

What is wrong on the "prosperity gospel"?
Our assembly also teaches about blessings we do have in Messiah and that all the Israeli's blessing can refer also to us thru Yeshua.
Apostle Paul mentions it himself in his lists that Yeshua was made poor so that we could become rich in Him. Likewise He died so that we could live in Him, and suffered so that we could be healed in Him - by His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53) ...

I don't think being poor is something we as children of God should live in. If we want, we could also look at our elder - Jewish brethren. They consider being rich as a blessing, not as a curse. Their life is prosperity - I think you agree with me if you look at them. Not like medieval catholic teaching, distant from the biblical truth.

Many evangelicals even in our country attack on this "prosperity gospel". I wonder why. They even say that our assembly is American agency and so on... They want to say that we (the assembly) are from America or are financially supported by America - which is not true. If it wasn't biblical that prosperity is also for us in Christ, I would also consider it "prosperity gospel".

[itiswritten]

Apr 7, 2010 5:20:29 GMT -5 Jonatan said:

Ah the feast? You mean Pesach, not the Easter, do you?
Well, some vacancy is good, even if it's Easter. I don't care about Easter, but yeah, I should have remembered Pesach which was a day before I realized it.

Yes, I meant Pesach and Unleavened Bread. I should have put some kind of reminder on here.

Many Hebrew roots people in Slovakia? Nay, I don't think so.
It's a shame but it seems Jewish people are not that frequent and large community here in Bratislava, the Capital. They have only one mere synagogue here and some historical remains (e.g. Chatam Sofer). Obviously some of them hide cos many of them remember the terrors of holocaust. From time to time I see some of them, including Rabbi of Bratislava, Baruch Myers and his family - who is from America. But Nationalists and young neo-nazi fan groups exist even today. Shame of Slovakia - hopefully one day it will be uprooted once and for all. Good is, however, that political relations of Israel and Slovakia is going to be better (or so I hope).
This will be a great blessing. Blessing for all who bless Israel as was promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

That's too bad. Sorry also to hear about all of the antisemitism too.

Maybe you could start a group there.

About the Torah teachings: I have no place to listen to Torah teachings. But I believe that the hebrew spirit is in me and possibly I do have a similar spirit as some rabbis have which I find out sometimes when I either posted to this forum and gained replies or looked at some Messianic site where many things there were also my opinion. Who knows?

Well that's too bad. I'm going to try to get another site up and going with Hebrew resources soon.

What is wrong on the "prosperity gospel"?
Our assembly also teaches about blessings we do have in Messiah and that all the Israeli's blessing can refer also to us thru Yeshua.
Apostle Paul mentions it himself in his lists that Yeshua was made poor so that we could become rich in Him. Likewise He died so that we could live in Him, and suffered so that we could be healed in Him - by His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53) ...

I don't think being poor is something we as children of God should live in. If we want, we could also look at our elder - Jewish brethren. They consider being rich as a blessing, not as a curse. Their life is prosperity - I think you agree with me if you look at them. Not like medieval catholic teaching, distant from the biblical truth.

Many evangelicals even in our country attack on this "prosperity gospel". I wonder why. They even say that our assembly is American agency and so on... They want to say that we (the assembly) are from America or are financially supported by America - which is not true. If it wasn't biblical that prosperity is also for us in Christ, I would also consider it "prosperity gospel".

Sure, nothing wrong with blessings of course. However, there are many that have made their entire focus upon money and acquiring all they can get. The prosperity described in the Bible is primarily spiritual fruit and truth, not name it and claim it and seeking to acquire as much stuff as possible.

[Jonatan]

Yeah, Yeshua is the primary goal we should always look at in all aspects.
Our assembly tries to get richer and richer (and it is a blessing), but the purpose is to preach the gospel more effectively and gain more saved people by Yeshua, not to become spoiled by it.
I do recognize the danger of great wealth for any servant of God. It can become an idol. And this must not come to pass in our lives.
Derek Prince has also some teachings about this. In every period in our lives we must check ourselves whether our hearts are with the Lord. We have to remember whom are they from.
Many servants of God (they started like servants of God) have stumbled on this block. And it's on everyone's own consciousness.
I reviewed some David Wilkerson's prophecies about the Times of End and one of the interesting - and logical - was that Satan will ask God (in same fashion as he did concerning Job) to give plenty of all to His children so that they might forget Him and be spoiled by wealth and concern for this life.
Nevertheless, it is also in eschatological chapters of the NT that we must take care that concerns for this life won't be a snare for us. In Mark 13, and Luke 21, I think. I don't know for now if also in Matthew.

btw. Some news about me... In recent week I am becoming lesser legalist and more charismatic, relying only on the grace of Lord. Not by our acts, but by His sacrifice we are righteous. I always had tendencies (whether openly or in heart) to condemn people who did sin, cos I considered myself good puritan-hearted and stonefast - but this hardness prevented me from receiving the grace of the Lord, blessings, forgiveness and all. Now I can fill myself with Holy Spirit - wow! That's a nice, wonderful thing! Keeping in mind that the Lord forgives sins freely and absolutely and that refer also for me. HalleluYH!
The thing that helped me was book from Kenneth Hagin, Love: The Way to Victory.
The Lord has taught me that not condemnation and righteousness (which actually was self-righteousness) at all costs is important, but also love and grace. Cos I, wanting righteousness at all costs, knew that the answer would be only: DEATH!
And is it the will of the Lord? the Death?
Well, He says thru Ezekiel (ch.18) that He has no pleasure in death of a sinner. He has instead pleasure of returning of the sinner to Him. He gave us the choice in 5 Moses' books - choose Life or Death. But He advices us to choose Life.
Life is beautiful. I don't have to live a Calvinistic model (which is actually Gnostic) seeing all material as sinful. This would not be Jewish. Hebraic thinking is life in full throttle - of course in holy way.
Also Hebraic thinking looks at community life - as elected people of God - there's no room for individualism and egoism which can be seen in legalists and some (or many) christian denominations. As I have heard, this individualism is a typical American feature. I don't know - you must know better, living in USA and having chance to observe it.
Now my view on believing people from any background is that they are children of God and even those outside can be future children of God. "Friendly-fire", even by our words is not the will of the Lord.

[pioneer]

Leaning back on Yeshua's sanctity is like going to the head table and taking the place of honor, then when the King comes in he says to you go down lower and gives the place of honor a diligent worker in the kingdom.

Be not hearers only, but be doers of the word.

The sages have it right that you only have your time on earth to do the will of G-d, when you are pushing up daisys, there will be no further "treasure in heaven".
Yes the blood of the lamb washes away your sins and buys you a ticket into the kingdom, but being least in the kingdom should not be the goal of a believer.

Shalom