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Post by John on Apr 11, 2009 22:49:18 GMT -5
yeshua is LITTLE YHVH, but he is not THE YHVH. this is why i posted the metstron-yeshua thread-- i think it clears up a lot.
i am not going to agree with you, so even though i have had a good discussion i think it is pointless to carry on so, i will stop osting on the trinity subject here (for the most part- i am probably going to respond to little things).
please keep posting anyone else however- i like hearing the opinions of others even though i do not agree with them.
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 12, 2009 11:53:14 GMT -5
haha, then why don't you post your opinion so we can hear, well read it they might change the opinions of some of us
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Post by John on Apr 13, 2009 22:04:43 GMT -5
good point- however, i have realized that the opinions of many will not be changed until their heart is changed. when they see a beleif that is different from theirs they turn their cheek and dont so much as glance at it agin.
so i will post on the trinity threads under a few circumstance (ie, get more evidence, or change my opinion, etfc)
i am very aware that i am young and can be easily swayed from the truth, as Polycarp says to timothy. but if i remain true in YHVH then i will definately end up stronger than some that are older than me.
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Jonatan
B'nai Elohim
BLUE
Posts: 260
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Post by Jonatan on Apr 14, 2009 5:42:34 GMT -5
Jonotan, ohh I just... I mean that's, idk what to say ummm some christians really don't know what they are doing they are taught certain things and the meanings aren't explained so they take what they get from it Oh btw, can you convert to Judaism. When my mom sees me on this site she always says, "Get over it. You weren't born one of them, so you can't be one of them" and that always gets me to thinking. Can I not, I have no Jewish blood whatsoever, everyone is either British European(how I describe it) or black, umm African american. I think I have to say that too. Unless you were born Jewish, it will not have any profit for you to convert into Judaism. And it will not save you - as it won't anyone who wasn't born it. As Gentiles, we have only one duty - to reborn and accept Yeshua as our personal Savior and Lord. And ONLY through Him we may come to Father. He is the Only One Way, nothing besides Him lead into Father and into salvation. Anyway, if you wanted to become Proselyte (the one who converts into Judaism), you have no way to have your sins forgiven, because there's no temple with Sh'kina (Glory of the God) and no animal sacrifices for sin in presence. So for you as a Gentile - same as me, Yeshua is THE ONLY WAY. And by the way, Old Testamental sacrificial system was given only to Israel, not to us who are from Gentiles. Shalom
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 14, 2009 8:01:11 GMT -5
Jonotan, ohh I just... I mean that's, idk what to say ummm some christians really don't know what they are doing they are taught certain things and the meanings aren't explained so they take what they get from it Oh btw, can you convert to Judaism. When my mom sees me on this site she always says, "Get over it. You weren't born one of them, so you can't be one of them" and that always gets me to thinking. Can I not, I have no Jewish blood whatsoever, everyone is either British European(how I describe it) or black, umm African american. I think I have to say that too. Unless you were born Jewish, it will not have any profit for you to convert into Judaism. And it will not save you - as it won't anyone who wasn't born it. As Gentiles, we have only one duty - to reborn and accept Yeshua as our personal Savior and Lord. And ONLY through Him we may come to Father. He is the Only One Way, nothing besides Him lead into Father and into salvation. Anyway, if you wanted to become Proselyte (the one who converts into Judaism), you have no way to have your sins forgiven, because there's no temple with Sh'kina (Glory of the God) and no animal sacrifices for sin in presence. So for you as a Gentile - same as me, Yeshua is THE ONLY WAY. And by the way, Old Testamental sacrificial system was given only to Israel, not to us who are from Gentiles. Shalom Yeshua is humanity's ONLY WAY -- and both Jews and non-Jews are included in the definition of humanity. Paul says in Romans that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and that both Jews and Gentiles are saved the same way -- through faith in the Messiah.
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 14, 2009 10:39:52 GMT -5
thanks for answering my question both of you. I wasn't you know thinking of converting. I was just sort of wondering if i could. By believing in Yeshua does that make us a christian,or Messianic Jew, or can we still belong to no particular religion. not as a pagan but just a believer in Yeshua and Y H V H.
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 12:30:29 GMT -5
ummm- i disagree.... judaism is a religion. it will be profitable for you to convert to MESSIANIC JUDAISM. however, conversion is not an out ward process, it is an inward one.
beleif in Yeshua is the only thing you have to do yto convert to judaism-- Yeshua circumcises us by stripping aaway the old man. Yeshua acted as our sacrifice so our sins can be forgivin, and when we accept Yeshua, than we are immersed in his body, going down as an old sinful man and coming up as a new pure one.
so my teaching is this: gentiles are allowed to convert to judaism, but they dont need to be prosylites: they can still be jews. but judaism is still the religion of YHVH, given for ALL to follow.
and we all need to still follow the sacrificial laws when the temple will be rebuilt. NOT for sins however. we NEVER should have sacrificed for sins. that is not what sacrifices are for. and kashrut still needs to be followed, as well as mikvah, etc. all of these things still need to be followed (with esceptions to every rule)..l. it is just that they are understood differently and can be abrogated by certain moral laws. this will take a whole different post to explain, but i have noticed the NLB and jonotan-- we have a VERY different interpretation of scripture on this subject. (if i interpreted your posts correctly)
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Jeordin
B'nai Elohim
GREEN
Posts: 107
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Post by Jeordin on Apr 14, 2009 13:12:00 GMT -5
ummm, yeah like I said I'd rather not convert to anything. I mean if I did convert to Messianinc Judaism, I'd only be allowed to marry a Messianic Jew
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 13:18:54 GMT -5
well... again it depens on how you interpret the verse. i personally know what shaul says, but i dont know how large of a context to take it in.
maybe someone else can help me explain this?
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 14, 2009 16:14:35 GMT -5
thanks for answering my question both of you. I wasn't you know thinking of converting. I was just sort of wondering if i could. By believing in Yeshua does that make us a christian,or Messianic Jew, or can we still belong to no particular religion. not as a pagan but just a believer in Yeshua and Y H V H. I've heard it said by other believers that Christianity is not a religion. (Well, I mean it is a world religion, but the true faith is not a religion). Rather, it is a relationship. There are a couple of definitions of Christian. The biblical definition of it is that it is a person who has confessed Yeshua as their personal Lord and Savior -- accepted what He did for them and believes in Him. Many people refer to this as a "born again believer." From that point on, the person grows in their relationship with God. This has nothing to do with the "religious" things that people do. So, by this definition, if a person is a believer in Yeshua, they are a Christian. This means that many "Christian" in churches are actually not Christian, in that they do not have a personal relationship with God, and they have not confessed Him as their Lord and Savior. I've heard people refer to those who do confess Christ as being "born again Christians," and that everyone else is just a normal Christian.
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 18:30:50 GMT -5
this is the problem w/ christianity.
[[glow=red,2,300]NOTE[/glow]: have figured out how to make the text size in a quote box be larger- anyone who want to do this pay attention: on the top row of all the symbols when you are making a post ther is an 'A' with arrows pointing up and down right beside it. highlight the text inside the quote brackets and press this symbol. then change the size number to whatever size you want it. 1 is the lowest, and as you get higher, the text gets bigger.]
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Post by pioneer on Apr 14, 2009 19:21:07 GMT -5
Book and verse? Not in there. Ac 11:26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians. Ac 26:28 And Agrippa said to Paul, "In a short time you think to make me a Christian!" 1Pe 4:16 yet if one suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but under that name let him glorify God. Acctually it was a slur against those who were followers of the Messiah/Christ/Annointed. Like in Mexico they call me a "Gringo", not too complementory. In the Erets Israel they were called people of the Way! Ac 24:14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, From; Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. Christian; The Websters or other dictionaries it is a follower of the Christ.
Not biblical.
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 19:27:33 GMT -5
what shaul was trying to say was names do not mater. whether one calls you a christian or a follower of the way, or a cracker (to white folks), or meatball (to italians), etc... shaul is saying that no matter what you are called you are to glorify YHVH with that title.
i am just using modern slurs to show how we can apply this principle now.
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 14, 2009 20:40:56 GMT -5
Book and verse? Not in there. Ac 11:26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians.Ac 26:28 And Agrippa said to Paul, "In a short time you think to make me a Christian!" 1Pe 4:16 yet if one suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but under that name let him glorify God. Acctually it was a slur against those who were followers of the Messiah/Christ/Annointed. Like in Mexico they call me a "Gringo", not too complementory. In the Erets Israel they were called people of the Way! Ac 24:14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, From; Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, " I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. Christian; The Websters or other dictionaries it is a follower of the Christ. Not biblical. Read Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, and the rest of the NT. A person who truly confesses and believes in Yeshua as their Savior is saved, and would therefore be classified biblically as a believer (and they would fit under the name "Christian" even if it was originally meant to be a slur.) From Romans 10 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--t hat is, the word of faith which we are preaching,9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.11For the Scripture says, " WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" The above describes my definition of a Christian. Under my definition, the only true believers are those who would be classified as "born again believers." People under both the "Christian" and the "Messianic Jewish" umbrella fit my definition that I'm using here. (But only those in both groups who confess and trust in Yeshua).
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 20:46:58 GMT -5
agin, the names do not matter, only that you glorify YHVH under the title.
actually, shaul says that his accomplishments and titles are rubbish- the greek for rubbish being a slang cuss word in the greek for crap!
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 14, 2009 20:50:35 GMT -5
agin, the names do not matter, only that you glorify YHVH under the title. actually, shaul says that his accomplishments and titles are rubbish- the greek for rubbish being a slang cuss word in the greek for crap! I agree that what titles we humans use for ourselves does not matter. What does matter is faith in Yeshua. If a person has faith -- believes in Him and what He did....trusts in Him as their Lord and Savior, then they are saved. And yes, we should aim to glorify Him in all that we do. The label that a person uses does not matter. Most people would call such people "Christians," but others would designate "born again Christians," and others would call themselves "Messianic Jews." Whatever, it is all one faith -- and we are all saved by the same faith.
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 20:52:47 GMT -5
that is true- we are all saved by the same faith under different names. this is what united us all- our faith inYeshua
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Post by Never Looking Back on Apr 14, 2009 21:02:17 GMT -5
that is true- we are all saved by the same faith under different names. this is what united us all- our faith inYeshua Yes, and this is what we need to remember. Instead of all of this fighting between those who use the name Messianic Jew and those who use the name Christian, let us unite over what we DO have in common. Let's see one another as brothers and sisters in Yeshua. Let's at least acknowledge this. Let's do what all of the writers in the NT encouraged us to do -- love one another. It is our love for one another that is supposed to draw us to the attention of those outside the faith. We are going to have disagreements, which means that not everyone within the body is going to agree all of the time, but we should be able to discuss these things with one another in a loving way. Our goal should not be to tear one another down. Instead, we are to try to build one another up. If believers (regardless of labels used) suddenly united in love, then maybe other people would be interested in Yeshua. The main thing that non-believers should see when they see us is love.
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2009 21:10:06 GMT -5
of course not! look at what Shaul did to Kefa (gal 3). and when he publically rebuked him, he did not tear him down, but rebuked him in a way that would tear him down. he rebuked him with criticism that would build him up.
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Post by pioneer on Apr 14, 2009 21:17:21 GMT -5
Book and verse? Not in there. Ac 11:26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians.Ac 26:28 And Agrippa said to Paul, "In a short time you think to make me a Christian!" 1Pe 4:16 yet if one suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but under that name let him glorify God. Acctually it was a slur against those who were followers of the Messiah/Christ/Annointed. Like in Mexico they call me a "Gringo", not too complementory. In the Erets Israel they were called people of the Way! Ac 24:14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, From; Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, " I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. Christian; The Websters or other dictionaries it is a follower of the Christ. Not biblical. Read Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, and the rest of the NT. A person who truly confesses and believes in Yeshua as their Savior is saved, and would therefore be classified biblically as a believer (and they would fit under the name "Christian" even if it was originally meant to be a slur.) From Romans 10 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--t hat is, the word of faith which we are preaching,9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.11For the Scripture says, " WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" The above describes my definition of a Christian. Under my definition, the only true believers are those who would be classified as "born again believers." People under both the "Christian" and the "Messianic Jewish" umbrella fit my definition that I'm using here. (But only those in both groups who confess and trust in Yeshua). Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; NLB, doesn't your copy of the bible have these verses in it?
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